WEC LMP1 vs ALMS GTE

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

The WEC is going to become popular globally very quickly I think and it is short sighted not to see that.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Whilst I agree that the bulk of Vipers will be sold in the US I do feel as though Dodge would benefit from running the car in the WEC too. The WEC is going to become popular globally very quickly I think and it is short sighted not to see that. Surely seeing the cars run in the WEC in addition to the US would be of benefit to Dodge in terms of world wide car sales rather than just running the car in the ALMS? Outside of North America nobody really knows much about the ALMS, the WEC is going to have a far bigger audience. If Dodge can be sucessful in the WEC surely global car sales would be as big for Dodge as the total sales of the car in the US? Perhaps the ALMS is a good toe in the water excersise ahead of a WEC/ALMS campaign.

Don't forget that the Viper isn't a Dodge anymore - so the halo marketing approach for Dodge's bread and butter models doesn't really work out here. The only thing this campaign is going to promote is the Viper.

Also: Is Dodge even still active in Europe or did they already get sick of not selling any cars? (I guess they could market it as a Chrysler Viper again, but even those seem to sell poorly in Europe at the moment).

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

? Not quite sure what you think is so funny? Ok the GT class in the WEC might not have as much strength in depth as the ALMS at the moment but the best entries in the WEC GT class are IMO better than those in the ALMS. I was originally reffering to the fact that the WEC is going to be a larger series than the ALMS, not necessarily the GT class of the WEC but the championship as a whole. Which entries took 1st and 3rd the GT class of the Sebring 12 hours by the way and dominated pretty much the entire weekend? I forget.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

? Not quite sure what you think is so funny? Ok the GT class in the WEC might not have as much strength in depth as the ALMS at the moment but the best entries in the WEC GT class are IMO better than those in the ALMS. I was originally reffering to the fact that the WEC is going to be a larger series than the ALMS, not necessarily the GT class of the WEC but the championship as a whole. Which entries took 1st and 3rd the GT class of the Sebring 12 hours by the way and dominated pretty much the entire weekend? I forget.

A niche sport, with middling attendance (except at LM), very poor marketing and no TV broadcast of note is somehow going to grow into something significant?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

@ U ..... you really dont have much good to say about that , so I suggest you concentrate on your own wonder F.U of a sportscar series .

At least their tryin , not adding CTC and PC class's to bolster their pitiful fields ..... to their own rules .

Your own series , when it was IMSA wasnt exactly fair , now was it . Porsche 962 and Porsche WSC to point out . Changing rules at the drop of a hat . Perhaps your better off following the good ol boys with their magic rules , oh but the organisers cant even be friends with each other ..... never mind what Canada has to offer .

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

A niche sport, with middling attendance [...], very poor marketing and no TV broadcast of note is somehow going to grow into something significant?

Not saying that you're wrong, but doesn't that describe what F1 was before Bernie came along?

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

A niche sport, with middling attendance (except at LM), very poor marketing and no TV broadcast of note is somehow going to grow into something significant?

Last time I checked Eurosport were covering the WEC, sure not a big national TV broadcasting channel, but big throughout Europe, good enough for the FIA WTCC and Moto GP which are both pretty big championships. The WEC is growing, with the arrival of Toyota there will be I believe renewed interest from the general public, for years Audi has dominated sportscar racing, yes Peugeot did a decent job but they were mainly over shadowed by Audi. Toyota mean business and they are a huge brand globally, much more so than Peugeot. Audi vs Toyota has the makings to help start make a classic LMP1 battle, and with the arrival of Porsche in the not too distant future I can only see the WEC getting more popular.

Sportscar racing has rivalled Formula One in the past let us not forget back in the Group C era. I see no reason why we cant get back to that level again assuming Audi and Peugeot stick around for the party and go up against Porsche and who knows who else.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

and against your biggest competitor is the real focus, and should be.

Fair comment ..... but the Carsport America wasnt even worth the effort , was it ?

[Simmi]

It's been done to death has this discussion. There are some people who will argue against the WEC until they are blue in the face.

In reality it isn't in a strong position right now, nor will it be next year. But then again it needs time to grow and I think it's naive to say it won't get bigger.

Some people would love nothing more than to see it fall flat on its face. As a sportscar fan I'm desperate for it to succeed, even if it means standing on a few toes.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Sportscar racing has rivalled Formula One in the past let us not forget back in the Group C era. I see no reason why we cant get back to that level again assuming Audi and Peugeot stick around for the party and go up against Porsche and who knows who else.

I wasn't around in the 80s but from what I've read, heard and seen, my feeling is, that Formula One is a lot bigger and stronger now than it was by the let's say Mid-80s, when Group C sports cars and Group B rallye cars were getting a lot of attention and Bernie was still working on making F1 really big.

WEC will be quite successfull, I hope and think, but nothing will rival F1 for a long, long time.

[SALEEN S7R]

I was around in the 80's, although I didnt start watching sportscar racing until the late 90s. From what I have heard and seen and read though sportscar racing WAS as big as F1 back in the late 80s. Just look at the Le Mans 1989 entry list and tell me thats not as good as the F1 entry list in 1989? http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...989-06-11.html - Silk cut jaguars, Joest Porsches, Aston Martins, Nissan, Toyota, Sauber Mercedes and Mazda. All big factory/works teams with top line drivers.

During 1989 all F1 had was Mclaren Honda, Ferrari, Lotus, and Benetton with regards to big teams. Draw your own conclusions. Anyway, sorry everyone back to the topic!

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

I was around in the 80's, although I didnt start watching sportscar racing until the late 90s. From what I have heard and seen and read though sportscar racing WAS as big as F1 back in the late 80s. Just look at the Le Mans 1989 entry list and tell me thats not as good as the F1 entry list in 1989? http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...989-06-11.html - Silk cut jaguars, Joest Porsches, Aston Martins, Nissan, Toyota, Sauber Mercedes and Mazda. All big factory/works teams with top line drivers.

During 1989 all F1 had was Mclaren Honda, Ferrari, Lotus, and Benetton with regards to big teams. Draw your own conclusions. Anyway, sorry everyone back to the topic!

That's just what I was trying to say Sportscar Racing was bigger back then and F1 less so. But it changed in the last 20 years and F1 IMHO is now unsurpassably big and will be for decades to come.

[SALEEN S7R]

Ah ok I understand now. Maybe your right, maybe sportscars cant be more popular than F1 for the forseeable future but I do think the WEC could be AS popular if we have Porsche/Audi/Toyota all represented with factory teams in a couple of years. Maybe im just day dreaming, only time will tell.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Simmi

As a sportscar fan I'm desperate for it to succeed, even if it means standing on a few toes.

Exactly .

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

I was around in the 80's, although I didnt start watching sportscar racing until the late 90s. From what I have heard and seen and read though sportscar racing WAS as big as F1 back in the late 80s. Just look at the Le Mans 1989 entry list and tell me thats not as good as the F1 entry list in 1989? http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...989-06-11.html - Silk cut jaguars, Joest Porsches, Aston Martins, Nissan, Toyota, Sauber Mercedes and Mazda. All big factory/works teams with top line drivers.

During 1989 all F1 had was Mclaren Honda, Ferrari, Lotus, and Benetton with regards to big teams. Draw your own conclusions. Anyway, sorry everyone back to the topic!

Yep , it was taking some lime light away from Group C . Fia got involved and dropped the engines down to 3.5L ..... effectivily ending Group C as the technology wasnt around for the smaller teams , Pug & Jag managed , Benz tried , as did Spice . It was finished .

I always remember meeting Hugh Chamberlain ..... he said there wasnt enough money in the world to make these 3.5L work ..... unless you were a factory team .

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Yep , it was taking some lime light away from Group C . Fia got involved and dropped the engines down to 3.5L ..... effectivily ending Group C as the technology wasnt around for the smaller teams , It was finished .

Phew, thank god nothing like this could happen to LMP1 and Le Mans in the near and forseeable future...

[Dyson Mazda]

A niche sport, with middling attendance (except at LM), very poor marketing and no TV broadcast of note is somehow going to grow into something significant?

Don't forget they dropped their 2nd (assuming Sebring goes) and 3rd biggest events because of stupid politics.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Not saying that you're wrong, but doesn't that describe what F1 was before Bernie came along?

F1 had a large following, and was well known for decades. Of course this was at a time when Top level sports weren't required to have ROI, or great exposure to justify the expenses.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by The Badger

@ U ..... you really dont have much good to say about that , so I suggest you concentrate on your own wonder F.U of a sportscar series .

At least their tryin , not adding CTC and PC class's to bolster their pitiful fields ..... to their own rules .

Your own series , when it was IMSA wasnt exactly fair , now was it . Porsche 962 and Porsche WSC to point out . Changing rules at the drop of a hat . Perhaps your better off following the good ol boys with their magic rules , oh but the organisers cant even be friends with each other ..... never mind what Canada has to offer .

Debate the topic, not make personal attacks on individuals.

..I'm not a big fan of the Challenge classes either, and no I don't think IMSA has done a great job of managing things well through the boom bust periods.

Having said that, even at the best of times, Sportscars has been little more than a niche sport, except at special events. Until such time as there is good management, who can work together to promote the sport and growth as a whole, in a well packaged and marketed manner, this will remain a small niche sport. There is nothing wrong with that at all, but none of the current managers have shown anything near being competent to doing more than keeping it alive. That this is a niche sport is something that I can accept and understand.. it's ok.

[joeb]

This thread has gotten a bit off topic. Does anybody have anything else to say about the WEC LMP1 vs ALMS GTE? If so, please stick to the topic at hand and refrain from personal attacks.