Dale Coyne To Field Two Cars In 2004 Champ Car

[Flatspot]

Originally posted by JohnSSC
Coyne is only as permanent as this year's sponsorship from a driver.

Let's not forget that the only team that has been in Champ Cars longer is Newman-Haas. It may not be permanence but it is certainly stability. Nothing in this business is permanent.

Let's also remember the reason why the vast majority of those who have left Champ Cars in the recent past have left. In a word, sponsorship.

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would want to knock the guy for what he does. Poke fun a little sure, but to imply he's not worthy of being in the game???

[Liz]

Having just returned from Sebring and from talking with a large number of Privateers in all three sports car operations (ALMS, Speed TC and Speed GT) that were there, I have a great deal more respect for those who are financing their passion by mortgaging the kids, selling the dog, and risking alienation of their understanding spouses, than for those who punch the time clock and are only there for the money. Dale Coyne is my kind of privateer. He is in this game because he loves it and believes in it, and I for one have never heard him urge the series to cave in and join the other side. To quote Mr. Vasser's eloquent statement, Dale Coyne "still holds a candle for CART." Mr. Rahal holds a candle only for cash.

Bravo Dale Coyne and today I will write to you and offer to assist you in any way I can, because I believe you are the only in the operation who knows what he's here to do.

[macdaddy]

Good post, Liz. Echoes many of my own thoughts.
But I don't believe Dale is the "only" one, as there is also Emmo and Mr. Newman. Also, Eric Bachelaert, Derrick Walker and all of the Tres Hombres are likely sinking their own money into this endeavour.

[Liz]

Derrick Walker, from what I hear, is still teetering in his support. I will wait til I hear him say he is 100% committed to our series before I add him to my list.

Mr. Newman, of course, I must support his commitment; although he isn't risking homelessness to keep on racing, he has made it clear that he's not for sale to the highest bidder and for that I commend him.

Mr. Bachelaert I do not know, so I will take your word for him. And Emmo has only a one-year track record and the jury is still out on him... although I am delighted he brought us Tiago last year and hope he brings us someone equally watchable in 2004.

But Dale Coyne has not wavered, despite some times when he has been on the brink, and despite a lot of people jeering and mocking at him and predicting that he will fail. And he is clearly doing it all for love of CART. And Bravo to him!

[The Snout]

Fans relate to someone doing it hard trying to achieve something, cause fans have done it themselves in their lives.

They don't relate much to Italian Suit wearing Team Owners putting a dressed up pig into a slingshot and telling the fans to follow the flying pig cause it's has the 'momentum'. Sometimes success can't beat determination for respectability.

[JohnSSC]

(JohnSSC takes a deep breath and types his response)

Ok, if I have not made myself plain enough I will try my infamous enumeration method of response:

1) I have never said that Dale Coyne was bad for CART. I am saying that he plays a diferent role for a series. And yes, teams such as his do bring a certain "stability" to a series. Not every team is a Newman-Hass or a Penske.

2) What there are is a certain "core" of teams in any series that have all the right stuff: permanence, full time staff, 12 month operation. However large the grid this core is never a high percentage of the grid.

3) It is these core teams that the series builds around. The Coynes, Fittipaldis and Bachelarts for example may or may not develop into that role as they may or may not WANT to develop into that role.

4) The majority of those who left I do agree left because of sponsorship. Racing is a lifestyle and also a business for Ganassi (you should see the house he is building here in Fox Chapel - yikes!), Penske, Andretti, Rahal and others. They desire above all to keep the team together. So yes, they will move as needed to ensure that the team is able to continue.

5) "Privateers" are defined typically as non-works racers who buy from the Factory, but do not get direct Factory support. While there is a similarity, there are major differences. For years "Privateers" were amatuers who ran selected pro events - particularly the Endurance events such as Sebring, Daytona and LeMans. Alain de Cadenet, for example is an example of a Privateer. Built his own cars, had moderate manufacturer support (such as engines) did some of his own driving.

6)I think it is a mistake to attribute what Coyne is doing as completely altruistic. There is I am sure something in it for him as well.

7) CART no longer exists. OWRS is the game now. It remains to be seen if OWRS will prove itself worthy to the memory of CART in it's heyday or even to prove itself worthy of the loyalty Coyne has shown.

8) As long as the pay drivers are guys like Geoff Boss I reserve the right to comment on that. It was to me a shame that Yoong, who truly had elevated the talent level of the team could not stick around. Coyne was to be commended for bringing him in - I wish he had been able to keep him. That is what I mean by permanence. A more solidly grounded team is able to keep a guy like that.

Thank you for your kind attention.

[Liz]

Altruism is a myth -- generally it means that the altruist is willing to sacrifice as many other people as it takes to prove his point or realize his ambition.

What Dale Coyne has is passion and the willingness to stick to a dream.

I don't care at all about the money side of it so please don't bother to patiently explain to me that a big fat wallet is the only thing that matters to the likes of Chip Ganassi. That is a form of prostitution and is all right for them that like it, but don't call it "racing" or "sportsmanship" -- it's a cold blooded cash transaction and no more Lily Marlene does not love you no matter what she may tell you before the cash changes hands.

Dale Coyne is not Roger Penske. He isn't interested in coldly removing his support and watching something die that he could have saved.

It's two different world views, John; one view that money is everything, and one that it is only the way you may get to the things that matter. You have your point of view and Dale Coyne (and I) have another one altogether. Nothing wrong with it, but please don't bother to explain with patronizing patience how you are right and everyone else is wrong.

We don't think like you do and you don't think like we do, which means we are not redundant.

[JohnSSC]

The definition of altruism is: "Devotion to the interests of others; disinterested benevolence; opposed to egoism." (Funk & Wagnalls). Nowhere in my dictionary does it say that altruism is a means to realize ambition or that one sacrifices others.

Coyne is not an altruistic person. He is an opportunist. He is an opportunist like the other owners no matter how you try to paint emotionally a picture of him living some sort of dream where he wakes up in the morning and says: "What can I do for OWRS today?"

If it weren't for those like Penske/Ganassi et al, racing would not be (on a pro level) what it is today. Raising the stakes in a professional sense has improved quality - including safety - and makes for a better "show."

[indycool]

I have always admired Coyne as a guy who tried to run with the resources he has. If he has no resources, he's parked. If he has some, he's run to the limit that he has.

That's the altruism part. He does what he can. Now, his announcement about running two cars with no drivers and no sponsors is the other part. To make that commitment, he must have money.

With the report that started at Phoenix and is now around Indianapolis that Hemelgarn has been offered several million dollars from an OWRS principal plus cars and engines to run a team in OWRS, Coyne's announcement -- with no drivers and no sponsors -- says that, IMO, OWRS has opened its checkbook for a grid at Long Beach.

[BootsOntheSide]

Pretty true there Indycool. Although there's no official Pookfare, I imagine at least 1/3 of the 18 cars will have some OWRS funding - not counting the cars Paul, Kevin and Gerry are adding purely out of neccessity (however badly planned those have been, in terms of taking cars away from teams who've defected as a result)

Coyne's efforts at fielding a team have been consistant, but let's not forget that, over 20 years, no major sponsor has ever backed him. Countless lucrative deals for teams much newer than his have come and gone, yet Coyne has remained at the gutter end of the grid, usually with inferior drivers who don't stick around long. His enthusiasm and commitment are to be admired, his business acumen apparently lacking.

[Liz]

I have the same problem. But for those who are in it for love, somehow they get by. And part of it is that we don't sell out. I've been told "You will never get anywhere with such high principles," to which my answer is "I will never TRY to get anywhere WITHOUT them."

A person who won't be bought, can't be bought.

And "altruism" in the dictionary bears little relation to what it means in real life. A true altruist is devoted to saving me from myself, determining what will be good for me and is willing to kill me in order to save me. I prefer an opportunist any day -- better "What's in it for me?" than "I'm doing this for your own good."

I never said Coyne was an altruist. But he realizes that the way to make a success is to support the series. Rahal had no interest in the series. Rahal wanted cash. And if cash is all you want, cash is all you will get.

[indycool]

Liz, Coyne is NOT running without cash. He never has.

[Dov]

What about Paul Newman? Here is a CC (team) owner who runs the biggest team in Champ Cars today! He has plenty of money and big time sponsors. His situation is completely different from that of Dale Coyne, but no matter how bad things have become for the CCWS, he would rather stick it out with us then go over to the IRL! You have to respect that as well!!

[racinthestreets]

You have to respect that as well!!

I have respect for the tres hombres. Yes Dov, I have tremendous respect for NHR They are not financially invested in OWRS (at least as far as I know) like tres hombres (the other big money teams) yet they are standing solidly behind the series that needs them now more than at any time (even if it is not the CART of old).

IMO Dale Coyne is a champion for his diligence and commitment to CCWS. Regardless of how he pursues the passion of racing - he could always chose another series to pursue that passion. As a fan of CCWS I want to see owners that not only have big money - but have the passion to pursue a dream. Looking at NHR and Dale Coyne Racing you have big budget and small budget - however, the passion is apparent for both.

[Liz]

Agree 100% with the above. It's the passion that matters in the end -- how much you want it to succeed -- even if all you can do is 'keep the candle lighted' and talk positively whenever you can.

If you can't be cheerful, said Granny, be as cheerful as you can.

[JohnSSC]

I would then cheerfully reply that I am referring to the dictionary's definition of the term. You are using the term to define an ideological persuasion. However, we can take that to Parc Ferme some day.

I too, believe it or not, appreciate guys like Coyne. I just appreciate owners like Newman-Haas for what they are as well. Each has a role to fill and a successful series needs them all.

To echo indycool, Coyne would not make an anoouncement unless the funding were in place.

[Flatspot]

If I may be so bold...
Who the hell cares if OWRS is funding someone or paying for races, or teams are bringing in pay drivers or whatever? It's their money and we're going racing in a couple of weeks and I'm happy about it and you should be too! So there

[cartpix]

I couldn't have said it better, Flatspot. As for all these guys being businessmen& just in it for the $$$$. I can think of a lot more profitable businesses to go into. They have to love the sport to stay in it.

Jeff

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by indycool
I have always admired Coyne as a guy who tried to run with the resources he has. If he has no resources, he's parked. If he has some, he's run to the limit that he has.

That's the altruism part. He does what he can. Now, his announcement about running two cars with no drivers and no sponsors is the other part. To make that commitment, he must have money.

With the report that started at Phoenix and is now around Indianapolis that Hemelgarn has been offered several million dollars from an OWRS principal plus cars and engines to run a team in OWRS, Coyne's announcement -- with no drivers and no sponsors -- says that, IMO, OWRS has opened its checkbook for a grid at Long Beach.

The major concern for me in all of this is that this approach (if true) seems to be the same road that the former management traveled....

and it will get very expensive very quickly....

I hope they do get 18 cars...but I hope that OWRS doesn't break the bank doing it....that's no way to build a Series for the long term...

[The Snout]

Anyone got a link on teams being funded ? Or is this just a guess we're talking about.

[Tim Northcutt]

To answer your question, Snout:

I have no idea....guess it is all specualtion...

But I do know this...

If Hemelgarn had the $$$, he'd be running IRL...that's where he competed when he did have the Coors sponsorship...

Walker would've announced by now if he had the $$$$....He got a huge chunk of CART change last year to compete...and he was hanging out in Homestead at IRL tests...so no one really knows where he's going to be....

I can't help but think that others would've announced as well if they had the capital to make some things happen...

What sense would it make to sit back, not hire drivers, and not test with the season 3 weeks away????


To Flatspot:

Who the hell cares????

Many on this forum may not care in the first year or two, but how long do you think the "tres hombres" are going to keep shelling out hard cash to teams, and to run self-promoted races, etc....

After a while, the money WILL be an issue if they go down the same road that their predecessors did....

and the foolishness we endured ove rthe past 15 months will come around to call again....

So yes....you should care....if you really want this Series to wrok for the long haul...

[Flatspot]

Tim you are spot on. However, if they were not putting the investment in today there would be no series today. It would have gone bye bye in January or maybe sooner. So I'm happy to see them do it.

I also beleive that they have a far more detailed business plan than Pook ever did just from what most (not all) in the know are saying. This comes as no surprise as this is these guys private money being spent, you tend to be a little more careful that way.

In reality, there are few, if any, fans that actually care as much and certainly not more than I do. My passion for Champ Cars runs deeper than any other form of racing or sport for that matter. I've been attending races for over twenty years and my children have grown up on a steady diet of methanol vapor. My daughters first sentence was "Arie won the race". If you want to know the truth it tears my heart out to see the current state of affairs but they are as they are.

I care about the saving of Champ Car but I don't care how it is done. I see the OWRS as a last bastian of hope for the formula and if this is what they have to do to save it then yes, I say "who the hell cares". If it turns out that it only extends its life then I'll be happy for each additional race we get.

[indycool]

I agree with Tim and I understand Flatspot's true passion for the sport.

But as far as a business plan goes, from the details we know about it, it's already at variance. No self-promoted races, now we have three....and the Portland deal still isn't signed per a story in the Portland Tribune.

No Pookfare, but it's reasonable speculation that Coyne, Walker, Hemelgarn, Bachelart and Fittipaldi would not run without money from somewhere. And it's OWRS that's on the hook for car count at Long Beach, therefore...... And Forsythe reversed himself saying he wouldn't run Carpentier, now Carpentier is in a three-car team with Indeck (Forsythe's company) sponsoring, as it is with Tracy. That's private money spent.

[cartpix]

There's guys in NASCAR that have been running for years, that are having problems getting sponsors & NASCAR has been running for 50+ years. These guys have 3 months from sale to 1st race to do it. Maybe, after the 1st season of OWRS, these guys might have a better chance of securing sponsorship & they won't need 3 amigo $$.

At least the 3 amigos are doing something to keep the series alive. All I hear is a bunch of *****ing about how their not doing it right. Maybe they should just say, "we're a bunch of liars" & throw in the towel, cancel the season & you guys can watch crapwagons on 16 ovals & 3 or 4 road / street tracks.

I didn't see all you "racing business experts" stepping up to buy & run the series. With all the doom & gloom in the press & the Internet, I'm surprised anyone could convince someone to sponsor a team.

I, for one, am behind these guys 100%. They're trying to revive the series, that was run into the ground by the past management. If they have to throw a bunch of cash at it, more power to them. If you have a problem with it, get over it. It's not your money. If they pull it off, the same people *****ing will be calling them heros. To me, they are heroes NOW!

Jeff

[macdaddy]

The way this season has started out, with so little time between the courtrooms and the racetrack, it's no wonder that teams have had problems securing sponsorships. Most companies have earmarked their advertising dollar long before now. And we must admit that perhaps ChampCar looked like a pretty risky investment at the time. Therefore, it does not surprise me that the Tres Hombres might have to dig into their own pockets a little. Once the series gets up off the ground, and shows the world that it can stand on its own two feet, sponsorship won't be nearly so hard to come by. And the teams can start looking for it months earlier.