[Race] Japanese Grand Prix 2018: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[Greem]

There isn't a "Ferrari are **** at strategy" meme, there's the facts that since Schumacher and Brawn moved on they've bottled it on more occasions than I can count. They're a classic heads down, take no responsibility organisation, where all the workers are so preoccupied with not getting the boot that they won't say a word when things are plainly going dreadfully wrong.
Meanwhile the people at the top are bemused because they're getting no feedback, and when they do get feedback their natural reaction is to sack the source.

They've been like this for *years*. They've got lucky on occasion, but the mismanagement is obvious and endemic and they won't improve in the long term even if they employed all the absolute best design engineers, production engineers, strategists, technicians, truckies and PR people in the known universe.

Sometimes we call that "bottling it".

[S griffin]

They are very much like they were in the pre Brawn/Todt/Schumacher era

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Greem

There isn't a "Ferrari are **** at strategy" meme, there's the facts that since Schumacher and Brawn moved on they've bottled it on more occasions than I can count. They're a classic heads down, take no responsibility organisation, where all the workers are so preoccupied with not getting the boot that they won't say a word when things are plainly going dreadfully wrong.
Meanwhile the people at the top are bemused because they're getting no feedback, and when they do get feedback their natural reaction is to sack the source.

They've been like this for *years*. They've got lucky on occasion, but the mismanagement is obvious and endemic and they won't improve in the long term even if they employed all the absolute best design engineers, production engineers, strategists, technicians, truckies and PR people in the known universe.

Sometimes we call that "bottling it".

Yeah you've pretty much summed up the meme right there, you just forgot to throw in the comment about it being run by Italians which is the problem.


Hardly anything about it substantiated though so it can be safely ignored.

[Akrapovic]

Apart from all the times they’ve bottled it, there’s no evidence that they’ve bottled it.

Next up: Honda engines are fine. It’s just a meme that they suck.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Apart from all the times they’ve bottled it, there’s no evidence that they’ve bottled it.

and there is no evidence of the number of people they have fired, except the number of ex Ferrari employees.

Yup, Greem's post is devastatingly accurate!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Greem

There isn't a "Ferrari are **** at strategy" meme, there's the facts that since Schumacher and Brawn moved on they've bottled it on more occasions than I can count. They're a classic heads down, take no responsibility organisation, where all the workers are so preoccupied with not getting the boot that they won't say a word when things are plainly going dreadfully wrong.
Meanwhile the people at the top are bemused because they're getting no feedback, and when they do get feedback their natural reaction is to sack the source.

They've been like this for *years*. They've got lucky on occasion, but the mismanagement is obvious and endemic and they won't improve in the long term even if they employed all the absolute best design engineers, production engineers, strategists, technicians, truckies and PR people in the known universe.

Sometimes we call that "bottling it".

That's a very interesting post.

Don't get this wrong, this is not xenophobic but my observation.

I have worked with Italians for a number of years and when it comes to a project, they are totally up for it. However, if during that project something comes along, that seems initially more appealing, they will take their eye of the ball and the immediate goal. I think this is what is happening with Ferrari.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Apart from all the times they’ve bottled it, there’s no evidence that they’ve bottled it.

Next up: Honda engines are fine. It’s just a meme that they suck.

Don’t use logic like that against Sprinkles. Say anything negative about Ferrari or Vettel and he will add you to the ignore list :-p

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Vettel was particularly poor today. 3 off track excursions in 1 qualifying session, not seen that in a while.

What happened? What was a difference between this round and the last? I know the track was dry last round, and was a little wet here, but surely a 4 time WDC should be able to handle a bit of water??

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

My prediction for the close-season: Arrivabene will be sacked.

Rumours suggest Arrivabene is moving on. Will be taking up a position in a management role at Juventus FC, as was the plan by Marchionne, apparently. But he has dismissed the claims, and has said he wants to stay in F1 in 2019.

[Gingers4Justice]

“Great start from Hartley!” screams Crofty as Brendon Hartley virtually goes backwards.

[ascarracinguk]

Anndddddd once again this season Vettel has fluffed it. Add it to the long list including France, Germany and Monza.

The right man is winning the championship at the moment, and Ferrari need to give LeClerc a fair shot next year....he is their future now

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

“Great start from Hartley!” screams Crofty as Brendon Hartley virtually goes backwards.

Haha I know, he was probably being sarcastic cos he, just like everyone, knows Hartley sleeps on every F1 start and goes backwards. I predicted Gasly 5th and Hartley 10th after lap 1... I was nearly correct Gasly only 6th. Then Hartley loses another 2-3 positions at the SC restart and finishes 13th after qualifying 6th, without any problems! Pathetic! Gasly finished 11th but he could have been higher because he lost several seconds in the pits which cost him 5 spots, and he had the engine turned down still right? It looks like he really turned it down at the end as he lost a lot of time, but still well ahead of Hartley.

Either way though the TR-Honda wasn't very good. Barely better than Williams-Merc and McLaren with their GP2 chassis. Hardly a match for the RB-Renault or even the works Renault. Tost, Marko, Horner all raving about the Honda are starting to look pretty stupid, and it's not even 2019 yet.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Anndddddd once again this season Vettel has fluffed it. Add it to the long list including France, Germany and Monza.

The right man is winning the championship at the moment, and Ferrari need to give LeClerc a fair shot next year....he is their future now

Yep once again. I'd consider replacing Vettel with someone like Ricciardo, or bring Alonso back. Sebs making too many mistakes. His championship years were plagued with mistakes as well, but he got away with them with a bit of luck.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Either way though the TR-Honda wasn't very good. Barely better than Williams-Merc and McLaren with their GP2 chassis. Hardly a match for the RB-Renault or even the works Renault. Tost, Marko, Horner all raving about the Honda are starting to look pretty stupid, and it's not even 2019 yet.

I think everyone in F1 knows the RBR-Honda is going to be a fair upgrade on the RBR-Renault. Question is maybe reliability.

In fact STR is going to be a good seat in ‘19 with the Haas model they are adopting with RBT.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Anndddddd once again this season Vettel has fluffed it. Add it to the long list including France, Germany and Monza.

The right man is winning the championship at the moment, and Ferrari need to give LeClerc a fair shot next year....he is their future now

Is it too hasty to say Ferrari sent the wrong driver to Sauber?

[S griffin]

Well, it seems the title fight is pretty much over. After Ferrari's blunder in qualifying, Vettel then throws it all away with a rash move. They need to do better next season to give Merc a better run for the title, as they have made it a little too easy for them.

I agree with Max, Vettel's move was Shanghai in reverse. If Max hadn't have been there, Seb would probably have been off the track. And Magnussen's blocking tactics it seems have finally come back to bite him, that could have been a nasty accident

Good race by both RBRs, Max giving Bottas a good run at the end and great recovery by Danny too. If only their car had been more reliable this season

Seems the STR Honda wasn't very good in race spec and just missed out on a point there. Good race by Force India too

Certainly glad I got up to watch this race

[mattcanary]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Yeah you've pretty much summed up the meme right there, you just forgot to throw in the comment about it being run by Italians which is the problem.


Hardly anything about it substantiated though so it can be safely ignored.

Mercedes have made the bigger cock-ups this season, in my opinion

[Kempi]

The season pretty much turns out to be like last year only this year it took longer to show: Ferrari had good early form and Mercedes was off. Without pressure Vettel had good races. When it turned out that Mercedes were playing catch up quickly Ferrari and Vettel both got nervous and it all went down to drain. Last year it started in Singapore, this year a few races early.

Really disappointed in both and Hamilton/Mercedes will be a deserving WDC/WCC with the best car and best driver, as whiney as both the team boss and the driver may annoyingly be. They are certainly good at spinning stories how bad they are ("56 points will be a lot" in Spa).

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by mattcanary

Mercedes have made the bigger cock-ups this season, in my opinion

I'll bite. ('tho' I don't know why...)

Hamilton's all but got the WDC and the same for Merc and the WCC...

Drivers

1. L. HAMILTON 18 15 12 25 25 15 10 25 - 18 25 25 18 25 25 25 25 ** ** ** ** 331
2. S. VETTEL 25 25 4 12 12 18 25 10 15 25 - 18 25 12 15 15 8 ** ** ** ** 264

Constructors

1. Mercedes 22 33 30 25 43 25 28 31 - 30 43 35 30 40 37 43 43 ** ** ** ** 538
2. Ferrari 40 25 19 30 12 30 33 25 33 40 15 33 25 30 25 27 18 ** ** ** ** 460

This has got to be interesting.... Do tell, please, your reasoning.....I'm all ears (eyes?)

[EffectiveSprinkles]

STR Honda start at the front and once again end up with zero points. Great upgrade again mates!

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

STR Honda start at the front and once again end up with zero points. Great upgrade again mates!

Thtop it you big meanie!!!

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Yep once again. I'd consider replacing Vettel with someone like Ricciardo, or bring Alonso back. Sebs making too many mistakes. His championship years were plagued with mistakes as well, but he got away with them with a bit of luck.

Indeed. A lineup of Alonso and Ricciardo would be ideal, with Leclerc placed at HAAS until Alonso decides to retire or is too slow and Ferrari "retires" him (as they do).

To think, IIRC, that both Ferrari drivers were out of contract and Ferrari have messed up their chance to secure this solid and trusty lineup.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

STR Honda start at the front and once again end up with zero points. Great upgrade again mates!

Gasly had a very slow pitstop and dropped from running behind Grosjean to running 13th, he climbed up to 10th, burnt his tyres and finished 11th. A solid run with excellent reliability shown by the Spec C Honda power unit.

The 0.5s per lap gain seems to be real and would make the superb Red Bull chassis (it's leagues ahead of the Renault and McLaren chassis...) a worry to the top runners indeed, assuming the old Honda was already on a similar level to the Renault, which seems realistic.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

It seems to be real in some people's minds indeed...

[bjohnsonsmith]

I'm glad I didn't get up at Stupid o'clock to watch the race, the result and outcome were totally predictable. Lulu won, with Bottas 2nd. Vettee messed up again. Max got another podium, Danny Ric drove from the back of the grid to finish 4th and the STRs failed to get in the top 10 despite the Honda upgrade.

Lulu is now 8 points from winning his 5th WDC. Good for him but it is getting a little monotonous.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Lulu is now 8 points from winning his 5th WDC. Good for him but it is getting a little monotonous.

^^^ Half empty. ^^^

No it's not.

^^^ Half full. ^^^