[BTCC] Donington Park GP, 26/27 August, Rds. 22/23/24

[crmalcolm]

A question regarding the allocation of points if anyone knows:

The bonus point for pole position is awarded after the completion of Race 1. If that driver (e.g. Sutton) was excluded, would they also not receive the point for pole?
Ingram was not awarded points for leading a lap after R19 - is it the same for pole?

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

and if Turkington will make room for Hill

Hill is P9 after the Knockhill penalty, so will have a lot of catching to do first!

Nobody’s mentioned Taylor-Smith who’s done very well in 5th, and Pearson up in the top ten again.

Butcher disappointing, really hasn’t got it together this season, and Jelley down in 20th is not what you’d expect!

Poor showing from the Cupra fleet (or at least Lloyd should be higher).

Obviously Cammish was missing, but to me it felt a little ‘sparse’ at the front today - seemed to be Sutton and Ingram in a class of their own.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

most motorsport championships now don't even really care about TV broadcaster anymore

British GT streams live , never mind international series like ELMS, IMSA, Hypercar etc

DTM who is a german series went even further they added english commentary and put them in YT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRAFP3SwGsI

only BTCC seems stuck in the ancient model

If you wish to continue this discussion then please start a new thread on this topic. That will give it chance to develop and also keep this race about the weekend.

EDIT: Tell you what, I’ll move these for them. https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158258

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The bonus point for pole position is awarded after the completion of Race 1. If that driver (e.g. Sutton) was excluded, would they also not receive the point for pole?
Ingram was not awarded points for leading a lap after R19 - is it the same for pole?

Ingram not getting the lap leader point makes sense. He was disqualified from the race so scores no points awarded for that race.

From memory the pole position is awarded after the start of the race, rather than after the completion of the race. It's a very subtle distinction. If the pole sitter fails to take the start then they don't get the point for pole. I would assume that if they were disqualified from the race they would still get the pole point. They would be disqualified from that session/race only and the pole point was awarded for the results of a previous session. If a driver is disqualified from race 2 they wouldn't also lose the points from race 1.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Ingram not getting the lap leader point makes sense. He was disqualified from the race so scores no points awarded for that race.

From memory the pole position is awarded after the start of the race, rather than after the completion of the race.

I guess so - the wording says 'starts the race from' so a DNS would forfeit the point?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I guess so - the wording says 'starts the race from' so a DNS would forfeit the point?

Yes, that's what I said. "If the pole sitter fails to take the start then they don't get the point for pole."

[Evantra]

Also, believe Addison mentioned that Huff was “due” to be back in the Cupra for the last two rounds. Not sure if that was a definite “due” or a ‘money dependent’ “due”!

[pimmy]

Originally Posted by thetool

It's also very clearly a car problem, though quite why he completed so many laps is a bit of a mystery. He was off the pace in free practice on Thursday, but only to the extent of 2-3 seconds off the back of the field.

About the same amount off during the race too. Not great but at least he isn't Robin Clark!

[mattcanary]

Originally Posted by thetool

If the Europeans had embraced the BTCT regulations, or something very similar to them that they were looking at, the 2000s could have been quite different. The cars were a bit ugly, but they were well designed for longevity and lower running costs, whilst stil retaining something of the essense of the original road car (something that's been lost with NGTC).

THe caars were beautiful tehn, compared to the monstrosities now

[BtccLee]

Very wet at Donington this morning, going to be an interesting day again…

[thetool]

Anyone know who does the official BTCC photography these days? The pictures on the website from yesterday are very lucklasture. Was looking for some shots of the cars going through the GP loop, but everything shot there is so zoomed in there's no real context to where it is on track.

[porsche962fan]

looks like it will be one of the most anti-climatic season finals

[Greem]

Sutton is just a monstrously good driver, isn't he? Some people might think it's boring but by crikey we're seeing something special this season.

[Greem]

Cracking overtake by Hill on ATS round the outside up Schwantz just now, followed a lap later by the perfect pass on Turkington. Now for Collard!

[Greem]

Gotcha. This is a great drive by Hill. Ingram a second and a half ahead in second...

[thetool]

Entire field has almost a second a lap deficit to Sutton in these conditions. As good as Sutton evidently is, it does suggest that perhaps the talent levels of some of the opposition are over-rated. 1.5s advantage over his team-mate in presumably identical equipment. A race winning, championship top 10 level driver.

[porsche962fan]

Hill totally outclasses Turkington again

[Greem]

Ooh. 0.049 seconds between Ingram and Hill. What a great drive by Hill, but what a masterclass by Sutton.

[SR18]

Turkington looked like an Amateur behind Collard

[Sammo303]

Originally Posted by Greem

Sutton is just a monstrously good driver, isn't he? Some people might think it's boring but by crikey we're seeing something special this season.

The fact he has been so dominant in 3 different cars now, covering both FWD and RWD makes any question over his ability a moot point surely, but I did find Sutton's and Tingram's post race comments interesting today.

Sutton said they've worked hard to find mid corner grip, and Ingram said Ash was finding grip he simply couldn't, going on to suggest the Ford might be the best FWD NGTC BTCC car of all time. This makes me feel like the dominance must be a function of not just the driver but also the car, the engineering and development and perhaps some luck too. Nothing new there but perhaps interesting to revisit this.

If you remember, the first year of Sutton in the Infiniti raised a fair few eyebrows in qualifying trim especially as the team seemed to be experimenting with very unusual setups. I remember Paul O'Neill saying it even looked like the roll bars had been disconnected one weekend. Qualifying was always a bit random but things seemed to come good on race day. The next year things looked much more refined and less random, but the setup was still very unconventional.

What does this mean? Well it seems to suggest that he has a creative engineering team and both him and his team aren't afraid to try new things. It also suggests that Sutton's key skill is perhaps his ability to work with the engineers to develop a car. There's less visual evidence of this with the Ford but the results thus year and comments after race 1 today seem to suggest this is perhaps the case.

I think this is all the more noteworthy because Tingram and Spencer have been credited with their pursuit of unusual setup solutions in the past. I recall Tingram's Avensis being described as having a setup unlike any other car on the grid and the result being comments from people that they just simply didn't have the front end grip he had at the start of a race. Tingram also would make sarcastic comments back then about being happy to be best in the FWD class. It is with this in mind that I found his comments about Sutton's unobtainable grip so interesting.

Nothing particularly new here perhaps, but I don't recall seeing anyone suggesting Sutton's ability to develop a car might be a major part of his dominance. Might also explain why his teammates struggle to match him despite data sharing given setups seem quite personal to a driver.

Sorry if this is off topic, perhaps it can be moved if there's a better place for this post.

[SV8Predator]

Originally Posted by Sammo303

It also suggests that Sutton's key skill is perhaps his ability to work with the engineers to develop a car.

I don't recall seeing anyone suggesting Sutton's ability to develop a car might be a major part of his dominance.

This has been discussed many times, on all of the BTCC / motorsport forums and social media, for quite a number of years now.

OF COURSE it's Sutton's relationship with his engineer that gives him the dominance. Tremendous skill on both sides.

[Evantra]

Tom Ingram drops behind Hill for pushing him off at the last corner! Surely that was just racing…

https://www.barc.net/wp-content/uplo...Tom-Ingram.pdf

Also a three place grid drop for Watson for contact on Pearson.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Tom Ingram drops behind Hill for pushing him off at the last corner! Surely that was just racing…

No it's not. You can't just run a car off the track to gain an advantage on the corner exit. It's no different to pushing a car wide on the entry to the corner.

BTCC might have turned a bit of a blind eye to it but thankfully they're clamping down on it.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

No it's not. You can't just run a car off the track to gain an advantage on the corner exit. It's no different to pushing a car wide on the entry to the corner.

BTCC might have turned a bit of a blind eye to it but thankfully they're clamping down on it.

But I’m pretty sure Hill had room for four wheels on the kerbs? Ingram was forceful but don’t think Hill substantially left the track, if at all.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Evantra

But I’m pretty sure Hill had room for four wheels on the kerbs? Ingram was forceful but don’t think Hill substantially left the track, if at all.

Are you sure?