HANS Device

[Walshy]

Sounds promising..........

[mattray]

Out of interest does anyone know when the license expires for the HANS? I would have thought a few companies will be making them once it does which will inevitably bring the price down.

[diz]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Diz I will bring the jam.

Thanks Frankie.
BTW is your halo still giving you mega mobile phone reception?

[Eddy V]

I doubt the price will ever come down. It is sort of a golden egg for the makers at the moment. There is the cheaper one-angle-one-size version, but still at £450 or so.

I only hope that FIA will never start putting "only valid untill ...." on it.


For the Leatt Brace, it looks more like you have to be a magician to put that thing on. I'm not saying it isn't good however.

[mattray]

Sorry Eddy I wasn't very specific in my meaning.

I meant the design license. It would be interesting for our company to make one as we have some F1 guys working for us that have made bespoke ones in the past. Although I don't know if we could do it for much less then £450.

[youngoldy]

Dale Earndhardt Snr's death in '01 was a major factor for the need for HANS to be mandatory in on most major series.

Even from the pit wall, we could all see how much Dave's head moved forward in his crash at Anglesey. When Jamie Stanley went wheel banging with Gough at Oulton in 06, I cant believe how far forward and how quickly Gough's head moved. Both head on, different concequences. Bradshaw had a big shunt at the Gold Helmet this year at Camp.Its a very quick corner with little run off, but Tom was wearing the HANS. It shows how it really can help prevent injuries in a crash.

If anyone I know who is going to start racing, and the HANS in not compulsary, I will make sure they get the messege about what happens when the HANS isnt worn. Myself and many of us have seen the circumstances too often.

[kartingdad]

Originally Posted by youngoldy

Dale Earndhardt Snr's death in '01 was a major factor for the need for HANS to be mandatory in on most major series.

Even from the pit wall, we could all see how much Dave's head moved forward in his crash at Anglesey. When Jamie Stanley went wheel banging with Gough at Oulton in 06, I cant believe how far forward and how quickly Gough's head moved. Both head on, different concequences. Bradshaw had a big shunt at the Gold Helmet this year at Camp.Its a very quick corner with little run off, but Tom was wearing the HANS. It shows how it really can help prevent injuries in a crash.

If anyone I know who is going to start racing, and the HANS in not compulsary, I will make sure they get the messege about what happens when the HANS isnt worn. Myself and many of us have seen the circumstances too often.

Not to mention Jason Minshaws bump into the pit wall at Oulton which prevented him driving a road car for 6 weeks (I think) after banging his head on the steering wheel...

[Cleggie]

....now just hang on...., whats all these stories about front impacts? Walshey was very adamant that there was no evidence to suggest that front impacts were no more frequent than roll-overs, (& don't forget, he was talking about roll-overs where the car stays inverted & the hoop dug in so far as to squash the drivers head, that is, had the driver the misfortune to have worn a Hans), now all of a sudden the only thing there is are ...front impact this, front impact that.... just not fair, those flat-earthers need something to believe in, just like us reformed smokers!

I must say, I like that post from MountainStar, seemed to say it all really, especially his last paragraph....

Now on the specific topic of the driver involved in a 'roll-over-hoop-dug-in-mud' scenario, I can just imagine this mythical driver recounting his experience....'well, there I was, you see, upside down, in darkness, not knowing what had happened, but with the feeling I was doing a good imitation of a plough, when I had the prescence of mind to move my head just a teeny bit to avoid all that heavy, wet soil which I could only assume was building up around me...'. Of course, what a ludicrous scenario, how much does wet soil weigh & by how much do you factor in for the inertia of the car? How does our mythical driver manage to move his head to just the right position with all the forces of the accident sending it this way and that, don't forget he doesn't have a Hans to stop his head from being thrown about.

Perhaps our mythical up-side-down racer is having his head buried in the same sand that our flat-earthers are willingly sticking thier own heads into....

[blue nose]

Neil Fisher did a nice 70mph plough at Old Hall ...its a good job he was short and could move his head to one side.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Good afternoon.Just a quick point, Dave Hart has found an alternative to the Hanns Device.It is called a Leatt-brace Moto R neck brace.Although it is unfortunatley not FIA approved,tests carried out show that it is more effective than the Hanns Device,. . .

Can you point us to where the test results are published? The device looks very interesting and I look forward to it getting open evaluation and approval.

Regards

Jim

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by Cleggie

Perhaps our mythical up-side-down racer is having his head buried in the same sand that our flat-earthers are willingly sticking thier own heads into....

Oh I say!
Vomiting runny bowel movements, does this warrant a reply?

Perhaps not.

[Cleggie]

Originally Posted by blue nose

Neil Fisher did a nice 70mph plough at Old Hall ...its a good job he was short and could move his head to one side.

...and he actually said that did he...'...oh I don't know, I just moved my head from side to side....'

I'm not sure but I bet I can move my head from side to side almost as much with my hans on, as without it, what I want it to do is to stop extreme movements, which of course it does do very well.

[greenboy]

With regards to test information on the Leatt-brace,I have been dealing with a company called KP Racing Services who supply this product which comes from South Africa.They have advised me on the safety test results.He will let me have a copy of same when he returns from a business trip shortly.The test carried out is called "the sled or sledge test" which showed conclusively that it was more efficient than the Hans device.Dave Hart has bourght one for Miles his son who is karting at Cadet level.It is easy to put on and also very comfortable.Belt can be viewed on KP Racing web site.

[blue nose]

You can see some of the sledge test vidios on the leatt-brace web site.

And yes old Cleggy he did.

[Asp]

Two notes guys:

I had to convince people to keep this thread open to discuss the appropriateness of HANS in Formula Fords. I get the feeling that the Leatt-Brace may have more generic interest in motorsport, so once again want to link to the thread in Racers where things should be discussed a general level.

Secondly, easy going on how you counter each other's arguments. Certain people are balancing precariously on that line between "reasoned argument" and "Attacking the poster".

If I have to delete or edit any posts, I will be charging the sum of one doughnut for it, payable at Oulton on Saturday.

[D_Marshall]

Originally Posted by Walshy

Hi mate.

Agreed, but it should not be a decision forced on drivers by the MSA. It should remain a choice. The only way they could make it mandatory is if it protected against ALL types of head injury. Can you imagine the flack they would get and possible law suite if they made them mandatory and a driver suffered severe injuries that might not have occured if he/she had not worn a HANS..............................

Are we going to see you about anytime soon?????

I think that it is accepted that in frontal impacts the Hans device helps enormously and in my opinion the do also help in roll overs as they stop excessive movement of the head. There is a driver testimonial at this link (http://hansdevice.com/s.nl/it.I/id.42/.f) that claims the device helped him significantly. It would be nice to see the video mentioned. I know the car is not a single seater and therefore the argument of the roll hoop digging in is still valid but it seems to suggest in a general roll the Hans device would be a great help. It is maybe the reason that Walshy has said, that the people making the Hans device won't say it protects in a roll because in a freak accident it could cause a problem and they may receive a few phone calls from some lawyers!! However from what i can tell i would prefer to have one on in a roll than not have one.

I was planning to come to the Oulton round next week but the i have to see if my back has healed enough for me to be able to become more mobile. I can't have a back brace on as the jacket for the halo is in the way of fitting one. Fingers crossed i'll be allowed.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by mattray

John,

yes the problems I was referring to were all in a new Ray. Carl Hemming's.

Hi Mate

Assume you used a 30 deg one?

Was it ok when you crossed the belts over behind you?

John

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by goughy

Had a quick 5 lap blast in our Ray today at Silverstone with my HANS on. No problem whatsoever. Could not even feel I had it on. It is actually a 20 degree version (bought when I did a bit of SCSA) which I am selling on Ebay so I can a get a 30 degree.

Did you have to crossed the belts over behind you?

Or was it a Stand 21 version?

John

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by SAMD

Lies, damned lies and statistics, to coin a phrase.
The problem with stats like the one that says you are more likely to have a heavy frontal impact than a rollover is, they are looking at overall figures, whereas a drivers particular class.... and when that is compounded with say.., that drivers particular circuit.... it becomes less clear that a HANS device is necessarily the thing to have.
In my own class, I drive an '86 formula ford and I feel the advantages/disadvantages are 50/50. I have been off the track at over 100mph on boggy stuff and if my car had been spinning I think it is likely I would have had a rollover (happily I was going backwards in a straight line!) but if the car had finished upsidedown the roll bar would undoubtedly have sank into the soft ground leaving my head holding the car up.
Now whether the HANS would have been a disadvantage then I really dont know.
But my head would not have been able to be squeezed out of the way.

So, you weigh everything up as best you can and make your choice (or not) as the case may be.

Interesting point similar thing happened to a school car when I was working at Brands - flipped over and slide on the grass the roll hoop was totally dug in - guys head was bent right over. Lucky he was strapped in tight and right height for the car!

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by mattray

Out of interest does anyone know when the license expires for the HANS? I would have thought a few companies will be making them once it does which will inevitably bring the price down.

Seen Willians are making them too now...

[goughy]

Originally Posted by Triple J Motorsport

Did you have to crossed the belts over behind you?

Or was it a Stand 21 version?

John

No belts were in the usual place-no cross over. It was not the Stand 21 version either. The belts have a grip on the underside for use with the HANS. Would have imagined it would be the same belts on Hemmings Ray though.

[Triple J Motorsport]

Originally Posted by FranksWilde

Well which one do you buy then?

If you look at this link there are a number of 30 degree versions.

Best price is $700 about £400 quid when you've imported I think.

Sorry forgot to put the link in.

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=HANS

Their web site says "Customers outside North America please Note: We can only sell HANS Devices within North America (Canada, Mexico, and the United States). "

[AJ Automotive]

Hi Guys,

I don't know if this info is any good...

USA spec Hans devices are not to be used in Europe it seems.

Jan Heylen had a lot of problems when he drove the Zolder 24 hours with his USA spec Hans that he used all season in Indycar.

I don't know what the difference is...
Could be a license thing or?

Regards

AJ

[Eddy V]

US Hans usually do not have the FIA homologation number, although they are up to spec. Most, if not all, are made to the FIA mandated spec anyhow (or did FIA just copy the US spec?). It is just the missing sticker what does it for FIA events.

[Triple J Motorsport]

The US ones are not FIA marked up whether this makes a difference in club motorsport where Hans is an option I doubt very much.

Done alot of research and the Stand 21 ones seem to be the best in my opinion.