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27 Mar 2012, 14:19 (Ref:3049451) | #51 | |
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True- but I wouldn't have minded seeing some of the stronger ELMS entries, especially those who are going to Le Mans anyway, taking in Spa as part of their LM preparation...
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27 Mar 2012, 14:24 (Ref:3049455) | #52 | |
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if i understood well, drivers of audi #1,#2 and #3 will take the first three highest points in driver's champ, while toyota drivers will take the forth place. In manufacter's champ i guess that audi will reach 25 points for the highest classified car, while toyota should take 12 points for the forth place (the scheme is this: first placed audi (if is one between #1 or #2) takes manufacters poins, second placed audi not, third placed audi can't score points for manufacter champ in spa, so i guess that if the #3 wins, the second finished audi will reach only 18 points, forth audi isn't in WEC at all, so toyota finished the race virtually in forth position)
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27 Mar 2012, 14:41 (Ref:3049460) | #53 | |||
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@alexkiller8
Regulations say: Quote:
Of course you are right about differentiating between manufacturers and drivers points, I forgot about that... they made the whole thing so complicated this year... So in this example, Toyota in 5th place should score 2nd place points for the Manufacturers Championship and the drivers should get 3rd place points. Last edited by Prometheus; 27 Mar 2012 at 14:48. |
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27 Mar 2012, 15:07 (Ref:3049473) | #54 | |
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You can see why this championship won't be getting big audiences any time soon... even fans have hard time figuring things out
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27 Mar 2012, 15:13 (Ref:3049477) | #55 | ||
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Yep, I thought the same thing when I saw all those different championship standings after Sebring. You can't expect anybody to figure all this out.
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27 Mar 2012, 15:41 (Ref:3049490) | #56 | |
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Even with "invisible cars" (and for this year, hopefully only for this year, complicated by the fact that only one car scores points) I bet it's a bit hard for the average viewer to understand why, besides the drivers' championship, there is no championship where all of the top P1 teams compete together.
One championship would be awesome. Named constructors' championship or something (better than "teams'"), that wouldn't be too far from what many of the private teams actually are. (In WRC teams are "manufacturers"... so I guess FIA isn't too worried about the wording generally). If "everybody has to win" then in addition a privateer cup or something could be created. I think even the LMS/ILMC way of having teams' and manufacturers' championships would be better. And what comes to the drivers' championship... it doesn't make much more sense either because it combines ALL classes. As if GT/LMP2 had any chance winning it? Last edited by deggis; 27 Mar 2012 at 15:52. |
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27 Mar 2012, 16:13 (Ref:3049498) | #57 | ||
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Quote:
1. #3 audi WEC not scoring points for manufacter's cup 2. #2 audi WEC *best result for audi in manufacter's cup 3. #1 audi WEC 4. #4 audi no entry in WEC 5. #7 toyota WEC *best result for toyota in manufacter's cup i think that audi will reach 18 points and toyota is still considered fifth (or fourth if not WEC entry cars will be totally invisible) and not second! last year in ILMC was used this system. Example in 2011 6h of spa, rebellion #12 finished in 7th overall position but 5th in ILMC classification, but however received 6 points as reward for the race in ILMC team champ (six points was the reward for the 7th place). If this way is kept also this year well i guess that toyota will reach 10 points for manufacter's champ. About senseless of mixed driver's champ some time ago i expressed my opinions, it seemed that none agreed with me, but now i'm realizing that i'm not the only one to think in this way. |
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27 Mar 2012, 16:26 (Ref:3049502) | #58 | |||
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Quote:
But: I just had a look at the WEC post-Sebring standings and apparently any car can score driver points. The #3 Audi drivers did get 18 points for 2nd place. |
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27 Mar 2012, 16:38 (Ref:3049507) | #59 | |
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all drivers line-up in entry cars of WEC (partial or full entry) are allowed to score points in driver's champ
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27 Mar 2012, 16:52 (Ref:3049516) | #60 | ||||
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Quote:
But: how dows Article 16.A.h fit in? Quote:
So why did Audi (and also does for Spa) enter 3 cars as "Audi Sport Joest" with the third car not being allowed to score points, if they could enter it as "Audi Sport North America" and thus make it eligible for points? Audi made sure the #3 didn't win Sebring - but what if it had for some reason? This might be relevant when we go to Spa... |
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27 Mar 2012, 19:29 (Ref:3049601) | #61 | |
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i watched again some ILMC 2011 statistics, well also here there is a no-sense! in spa 2011 there were 3 audi cars (the #1 and #2 ILMC entries and the #3 not, infact had also the LMS banner as confirmed by this pic
well, audi was rewarded with 21 points at the end of the race (11 points for the #3 placed third + 9 points for the #1 placed fourth + 1 point of pole position of the #1). Well if you've read well, the #3 that wasn't a ILMC entry (or that wasn't a full-entry car) however scored points for audi in manufacter's cup! even if 2012 regulamentation say as written above, now i am really doubtfull that #3 and #4 can't score points for manufacter's cup.... (link of the pic http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....1304711201.jpg) |
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27 Mar 2012, 19:33 (Ref:3049602) | #62 | ||
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On the entry list several teams have '°' next to them, which according to the entry list means 'Subject to the FIA approval'.
Does anyone know what that is all about? Tom. |
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27 Mar 2012, 19:42 (Ref:3049610) | #63 | |
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yes me too noticed that. In sebring i thougt that AF Corse #51 was running with some waiver because during sebring test days the car hadn't installed the mandatory 2012 bigger side mirrors... but AF Corse cars used them during the race so the reason apparently is another.
An other reason may be that not all drivers that run in 2012 WEC received a FIA ranking classification (example bertolini is not included in the list) so their presence need to be examinated and confirmed race by race as mere formality. |
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27 Mar 2012, 20:30 (Ref:3049638) | #64 | ||
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article 41. b.c something or another...
they didn't pay for the second car yet they have until 15th of April to pay for it. |
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27 Mar 2012, 20:47 (Ref:3049647) | #65 | |
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well AF Corse is someway backed by ferrari corse clienti department, and because of this is involved in almost all important european national and international champs... financial issues are the last of their problems.
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28 Mar 2012, 09:01 (Ref:3049905) | #66 | ||
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28 Mar 2012, 21:51 (Ref:3050220) | #67 | ||
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I guess AMR have two cars, one in the US and one in EUR.
Since they are going to run both Long Beach and Laguna Seca and Spa in between? Cheers |
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28 Mar 2012, 21:57 (Ref:3050224) | #68 | |
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Anyway, Ferrari does not foot their entire bill. Being big and beautiful and involved in numerous championships doesn't meant they have no financial issues and in any case it doesn't mean they wouldn't use every regulatory loophole to get rid off their money as late as possible. You make it sound they would be a fully factory-backed team instead of a factory-supported team, which they are. A huge part of their program is paid by wealthy clients and all that together makes it possible for them to run a few pro-cars.
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28 Mar 2012, 22:07 (Ref:3050227) | #69 | |
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sure, but in WEC AF Corse run for ferrari in manufacter's cup, so i guess that ferrari reparto corse clienti is really intersted to support them paying the remaining taxes!
It's not the GT-open or other national championships where ferrari manufacter isn't releated at all with the team |
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29 Mar 2012, 05:19 (Ref:3050293) | #70 | ||
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Ferrari doesn't invest in AF Corse's program just as Porsche doesn't invest in Felbermayr-Protons. They provide factory drivers and the latest equipment, but they aren't paying any money into it.
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29 Mar 2012, 10:54 (Ref:3050353) | #71 | |
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Exactly. Well, depending on the case, there might be some additional support i.e. in form of parts which can be seen as financial support, but for sure the factories are not paying the full bill or half of it or anything close.
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29 Mar 2012, 15:54 (Ref:3050477) | #72 | ||
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Quote:
A thought- the 'Am' car at Le Mans will presumably need to be 2011-spec, without whatever upgrades AMR made over the winter, so have they got at least 3 chassis available? |
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29 Mar 2012, 16:49 (Ref:3050506) | #73 | ||
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I don't see why, the Gulf AMR Middle East Vantage in GTE-Am last year was a brand new 2011 spec car, and yes it was 2011 spec.
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29 Mar 2012, 17:33 (Ref:3050534) | #74 | |||
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Quote:
EDIT: They could do what Ferrari did for Krohn Racing: 2012-built car but to 2011 specifications. |
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29 Mar 2012, 20:29 (Ref:3050608) | #75 | ||
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The YD car at LM is supposed to be a 2011 chassis, yes (the one run by YD last year). Apparently Aston has applied for a waiver to allow the modifications to the powertrain for reliability purposes from the 2012 car to be applied to the 2011 chassis as well.
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