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1 Jan 2004, 01:07 (Ref:824867)
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#51 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,183
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GP & Gt, you guys don't trust PG or OWRS, yet you're willing to put your FULL TRUST in Tony George:confused: What's up with that??? It makes no bloody sense at all!!!
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1 Jan 2004, 01:08 (Ref:824868)
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#52 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,301
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Good on you Snout. Keep the positive outlook. I like the proposed outcome!
 I beleive however, ISC's (88 Corp.) only interest in forwarding a bid is to keep a claim against C^RT's assets alive. Honda and Toyota already know the Cosworth XF inside and out. It was developed in '99 for debut in 2000 and detuned for '03 racing. There is nothing new about it. An old article on the engine just for fun |
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__________________
A good friend will come bail you out of jail. A true freind will be sitting next to you saying "Damn...that was fun!" |
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1 Jan 2004, 01:08 (Ref:824869)
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#53 | ||
 Race Official1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 47,542
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Well I thought grandprix.com had some interesting views on the situation
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns12313.html It seems there may be a spoiler bid for some or all of the assets on behalf of a number of different businesses associated with the other series. grandprix.com is generally a lot more reliable than champweb... I think its all a sad state of affairs 
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__________________
Go woke, Go broke… #CANCERSUCKS #GOCHIKO Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! |
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1 Jan 2004, 01:48 (Ref:824887)
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#54 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 274
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The ISC bid could be a trade off for the monies that CART are seeking for the cancelation at Fontana. At present OWRS bid is lower than the Fontana sanctioning fee.
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1 Jan 2004, 02:49 (Ref:824931)
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#55 | ||
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Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,344
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I'm trying to think of an anallogy for the whole state of affairs, but its got more twists than a Len Deighton novel.
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__________________
"Abe will be remembered as a fighter" - RIP Abe. |
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1 Jan 2004, 03:17 (Ref:824960)
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#56 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 274
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$1.63 Million in cash is the OWRS bid. SHouldn't be to hard for TG or ISC to match this.
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1 Jan 2004, 03:29 (Ref:824964)
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#57 | ||
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Race Official 1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 47,542
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ISC's first bit would have to be at least US$1.78m... US$1.63m + a minimum US$150k overbid value... plus "...assumption of extensive potential liabilities of the debtor..."
Although the clever option for ISC might be to put this in a shelf company, sell the valuable bits (if there are any) to themselves, and let the thing go on its merry way to destruction |
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__________________
Go woke, Go broke… #CANCERSUCKS #GOCHIKO Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! |
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1 Jan 2004, 03:43 (Ref:824980)
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#58 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 549
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Re: Bankruptcy hearing extended to January 28th
Quote:
On Jan.28 the saga will be over: OWRS owned CART's Champ Car World Series will go on. period ?!?! zerO |
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1 Jan 2004, 03:57 (Ref:824991)
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#59 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 549
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Quote:
I love you and all that, but PLEASE stay away from believing the spins in AutoWeek, IndyStar and Motorsport.com - those are not the places where you'd find truth !!... btw, the above AutoWeek article has PG's quotes from two weeks ago - nothing new said there, nor is the spin favorable, so why did you bother posting it on a CART board (it belongs on IRL board)... no, I am not accusing you of trolling - I'm just trying to help you understand that there is such a thing as "biased journalism"... there is an old Polish adage - was loosely translated on the old "Banacek" and Geroge Peppard uttered it: "A paesant walks by a wooden fence and sees "A.S.S." written on it, he glances it with his hand and gets a splinter stuck in one of his fingers... the moral of this story is: DO NOT BELEIVE EVERYTHING THAT IS WRITTEN ?!?!"... please keep that in mind...  zerO |
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1 Jan 2004, 04:07 (Ref:824993)
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#60 | |||
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 274
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Quote:
A double Bankrutpcy could see this go for a long time yet. Although with each minute that ticks by Nascar looks a whole lot more stable for Fans and Sponsors. |
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1 Jan 2004, 04:14 (Ref:825000)
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#61 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,559
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Rumor has it that France is also negotiating use of the Trans Am name from SCCA. I would also not disregard the France bid to acquire CART. My feeling is that there is going to be some major changes in the auto racing scene in the U.S. It would not surprise me to see P.G. holding the bag and be out in the cold in both CART and Trans Am.
These events are probably some of the more interesting, good or bad, that has been seen in many a year. |
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1 Jan 2004, 04:15 (Ref:825001)
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#62 | ||
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Race Official 1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 47,542
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Well lets say it costs them US$5m... peanuts considering whats at stake....
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__________________
Go woke, Go broke… #CANCERSUCKS #GOCHIKO Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! |
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1 Jan 2004, 04:27 (Ref:825007)
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#63 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 996
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At the very least, SOMETHING is going to happen and we're all going to get on with our lives one way or another.
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1 Jan 2004, 04:36 (Ref:825009)
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#64 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 274
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One thing ISC could do is drop the $2.5M claim against the non event sanction fee at Fontana that gives them a major start in the bidding War against OWRS before Cash is even talked about.
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1 Jan 2004, 06:37 (Ref:825041)
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#65 | ||
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Race Official 1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 47,542
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In reality all that would have to happen would be for the ISC boys to delay proceedings through the new bid, stuff around for a few months and miss all the deadlines, and voila, the C^RT carcass is only bones
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__________________
Go woke, Go broke… #CANCERSUCKS #GOCHIKO Here’s hoping a random universe works out in your favour… The meaning of life… ENJOYING THE PASSAGE OF TIME! |
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1 Jan 2004, 06:49 (Ref:825047)
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#66 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 274
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GTR I think so. There seem to be intent there from both ISC and IMS to disrupt the CART OWRS plans as much as possible. They easiest action is to stuff OWRS around through the courts and watch the deadlines fly by. The Long Beach GP will be the one that hits OWRS the hardest but unfortunatly its the first event on the calender.
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1 Jan 2004, 09:42 (Ref:825080)
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#67 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,480
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IF ISC/IRL try to delay to destroy the competition, it may open them up to a chance of a suit. Why risk that now when they could have avoided such a rish by putting in a bid originally when CART or it's assets was up for sale.
Last edited by The Snout; 1 Jan 2004 at 09:45. |
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__________________
"All this amateur analysis leads nowhere and is insignificant......So you waste hours, days, months, years of your life for what end? A bit of one-upmanship on the internet?" - Wilton969 |
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1 Jan 2004, 12:11 (Ref:825121)
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#68 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,183
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Quote:
I love you to man!  I was questioning myself after I posted that article because I also thought that the story looked a little old, yet the date at the top of the article said Dec/30....so I guess that slightly confused me. I felt that the article was quite positive in CART's favour....it mentioned a minumum 18 car grid and at least a 16 race schedule, so I'm a little confused to why you feel that this article was biased towards CART and felt it should have been posted in the IRL forum:confused: Let me tell you ZerO, I feel like an Old Dog (I have been a fan of Cart since the early 80's) who is lost and trying to find it's way home (ChampCars...early 80's-1995), to a home that is familiar, but yet I can't find. I KNOW that CART has changed since then (both for the better and for the WORST) and it will continue to change under OWRS, but at least they will keep my old home that I'm trying to find in roughly the same shape as when I left it.....unlike TG, Mr. France and ISC!!!  One for each of them. Let's keep are fingers crossed and hope that Judge Otte will do the right thing, let OWRS take over for CART and get this 2004 season rolling!
Last edited by Dov; 1 Jan 2004 at 12:16. |
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1 Jan 2004, 17:36 (Ref:825214)
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#69 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,376
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Quote:
The momentum is definetly with George. If you look at the the IRL, they've got the money, the sponsors, the manufacturers, the tracks, a great TV deal, ESPN and ABC, they've got drivers with name recognition, and quite a few are American drivers, which I feel is important, and Champ Cars doesn't. That said, the IRL has problems, but nothing close to what OWRS is facing.The only thing OWRS has in its favor is the road/street races which we love, but I think the IRL could take them on and do it well. After all that I've read, I can't help but think that PG is in this thing to buy CART cheap, make it look attractive, and sell to George to make a profit. Look at his business plan, its almost exactly like Pooks! What's going to change? Motorock, drifting, and Spike TV aren't going to turn this ship around. He has stated on many occasions that having one series is the only way to go. He's a businessman first, and he has no history with Champ Cars, so I'm not buying his story about doing it because he loves the series. Look what he did to Trans Am! I see the future of racing in North America this way: NASCAR, the IRL and Grand Am will be the dominant factors in the future. It will be the "Big 3" so to speak. It will have sports cars, open wheel cars and tin top cars covered. It will provide simple to follow, simple rules, and above all else close racing with alot of passing. Thats what the younger generation will be looking for. Thats the picture the way I see it... |
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1 Jan 2004, 18:03 (Ref:825222)
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#70 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,183
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Hi GP,
What about GF? Do you think that Mr Forsythe want's to sell the CCWS to TG just to make a profit? He doesn't and never has seemed like that type of a person....yes, he is a business man as well, but he's one that has always loved CART and I can't seem him selling out like that.....just my 2 cents.... |
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__________________
Give them good ol' boys the chrome horn PT! |
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1 Jan 2004, 19:27 (Ref:825257)
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#71 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,376
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You could be right, but Forsythe has been very much in the background here, pretty much letting Gentilozzi do all the talking and representing for OWRS.
In the scenario that I made about OWRS looking to buy the CART assets cheap and then sell to George at a profit, I don't really see that as being a bad thing. Its not really selling out, its actually the only way to save open wheel racing in the long term. If George outbids OWRS and wins, he maybe looked at as the guy who put Champ Cars out of business, and I don't believe he wants that. But if OWRS wins and then sells it to George, they can have a big press conference, with group hugs, and kisses all around and declare the open wheel war over, lets all just get along and make one big happy series. In that scenario, everyone comes out looking good, and nobody will look like they sold out. They will all be able to paint themselves as the hero's who saved open wheel racing in North America, and I think as fans, in the long run, we win also. Cheers Dov and Happy New Year! It should be an interesting one!
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__________________
"I don't feel insecure about 'being girlie'. I do as much media as I can because I want this IRL series to be so kick-butt that NASCAR goes, 'Huh?'" Danica Patrick |
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1 Jan 2004, 19:45 (Ref:825267)
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#72 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,983
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TRUST? What has this exercise have anything to do with TRUST? TRUST that TG or PG won't cut the chojuelos off your prize bull? TRUST that they will deliver you from evil? TRUST that either of them will do exactly what you want when you ewant them to do it?
TRUST has nothing to do with this adventure. If you want to talk about TRUST, then talk about Craig and Heitzler and Pook. Whatever goes down, these guys are going to do what they figure is the best thing to do at the time. They're not just posturing for the guys at CW because of their egos. If TG has any interest at all, it's not going to come any cheaper than to venture forth into bankruptcy court now. Why would he wait to pay a profit for PG, KK and GF, as if there's going to ever be one? OWRS projects a $22 million loss for '04. Precisely why would TG want to pay for something out of that debt burden even after one year? As for Forsythe, he's already burned $30 million. No profit for him, regardless. |
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1 Jan 2004, 20:05 (Ref:825281)
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#73 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,480
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Quote:
As a general comment, Forsythe's involvement hits any theory that OWRS aren't intending to run a series on the head for mine. Cause if there's no profit in a short term buy and sell why is he there. |
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__________________
"All this amateur analysis leads nowhere and is insignificant......So you waste hours, days, months, years of your life for what end? A bit of one-upmanship on the internet?" - Wilton969 |
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1 Jan 2004, 20:12 (Ref:825289)
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#74 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,376
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TG may want to wait and give a small profit to OWRS, to save himself from being the bad guy yet again, and being looked at like the guy who put Champ Cars out of business. It could do irrepairable damage to a new series forming. It could alienate would be fans that might come over from the CART side.
Yeah its all about business and money, but this deal, if it comes, has to be done right, and how fans perceive this will be important. The other scenario might be that he doesn't care about perception and he will just out bid OWRS, and let the chips fall where they may. Either way, I think the ball is in TG's court now, he's got the money, power, and leverage... |
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__________________
"I don't feel insecure about 'being girlie'. I do as much media as I can because I want this IRL series to be so kick-butt that NASCAR goes, 'Huh?'" Danica Patrick |
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1 Jan 2004, 20:25 (Ref:825293)
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#75 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,183
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Quote:
There's NO DOUBT it will be an interesting one!!!  
Last edited by Dov; 1 Jan 2004 at 20:31. |
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