Ralt RT 4

[dereklola]

Michael drove SuperVee in 1982 and won the title.
Atlantics in 1983 - won title [or at least one of them, were they split thatyear?]
Also in 1983 drove at LeMans and in the final few CART races.
1984 full time in CART.
So no 1984 RT4 for him.
E&OE

[Chris Townsend]

Working through RT4 histories for the later models [85-88] is causing me a headache despite the limited number of cars, largely because they seem to change hands or get rented out so often.

I need some feedback [any feedback] on the following cars, and yes I'm sure that Michael Andretti drove them all...

Ken Smith has two cars, an 86 and an 88.
86 is I think chassis 659. Does this go to USA in 1987 for Mike Demski-Dean Hall-John Christian?
88 there don't seem to be enough cars to go round, but it might be chassis 726. If so, does it go to Scott Harrington's team after the NZ series?

Graeme Lawrence's later cars
Lawrence buys 664 in October 86 and I guess runs it in 87 NZ series. What happens then? f/s OT 13.4.87 p.71 Michael Demski 87 RT4 NZ GP winner developed by Lawrence. This must be 664, does Demski bring it to USA?

Lawrence's car in 88 NZ. Lawrence is said by On Track to buy Eric Lang's 87 RT4 for this series. Does anyone have a chassis number for this car? Or better, own it!

Bren brothers in NZ winter 87
At the moment there seem to be two more cars around than there are early 87 models in the build record.
Steve and Cary Bren take a pair of RT4/87s to NZ for the 87 series. OT 11.11.85 p.10 says these cars were purchased from Ralt Australia which would suggest 591 and 592 consigned to Watson in Oct 86; but Watson has 86 spec cars in NZ 87 too and goes on using them in the US in 87

The Tony George/David Kudgrave cars in NZ 88. Dave White takes a pair of RT4/87s to NZ for this series. I presume these to have been two of the three team cars run for Al Mitchell etc in the US, but want to be sure that the cars sold to Mitchell in late 86 weren't the cars taken by the Brens in 87. Any chassis numbers noted on these guys?

673 and 674 in 87 went to O'Connor for Calvin Fish and Stocker for Tom Knapp respectively. Does anyone out there have one of these cars and know what happened to it in 1988?

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Chris,

I can probably help with some , Ed Holly and I have been at the RAAF Airshow at Richmond Airforce base today and we are all FA18 , F111 , Meteor , Canberra bomber , Mustang , Spitfire , Vampire , Globemaster etc. spaced out.
Who needs old racing cars when you can have an FA18 doing 7.5 G turns in front of you.

Bryan.

[Bryan Miller]

Chris,

All that follows is from SCCA logs and the applicants investigations.

RT4- 575 , new to Tom Mitchell racing [ 1 of 2 ] used by Scott Goodyear to win c/ship.
Dec. 86 -Aug 88 , Cliff Rademaker [ Texas]
Aug 88 - May 89 , Michael Finch [ ex pat Kiwi , in the states.] maybe car went to NZ for series [ can't read notes]
May 89 - July 90 , Robin Granger [ L.A.]
July 90 - Oct. 96 , Stu Hanssen [ Santa Ynez , Calif.]
Tony Simmons [ Australia 97/98 ] now with Les Wright in Sydney for about 4 years.

Will do seperate posts as I find the cars .

Bryan.

[Steve Wilkinson]

2.5 Ralt-Hart/Hill RT4-82-157

This car ended up with first Patrick Wood and then Richard Williams. Richard had a shunt at Pembrey with the car and is currently looking at a rebuild. It is still fitted with the Hart 2.5 engine.

[Bryan Miller]

RT4-592,

This is all from Graham Watson's notes.

Purchased by Ralt Australia Oct. 85 , for A.G.P Nov 85 , driver Jeff McPherson .
To N.Z. for series 86 , drv J. McPherson , 3 x 1st places.
Back to Australia , for Gold star series, Sandown [ Bap Romano 2nd] , Wanneroo 1st. Adelaide 2nd.
Then Calder [ Ken Smith] 1st. Winton 1st.
Then Oran Park 3rd , Keith McClelland , then Ken Smith again at Amaroo, dnf.
Then back to NZ Oct/Nov 86 , David Brabham in the 3 race Global Series, then also David Brabham 1987 Jan. series.
notes unreadable , but seems to say sold to Richard ??

It looks like maybe Ken Smith owned it from sometime in 1986 all through to 1998 , when it was sold to Ray Stubber in Western Australia , now owned by Richard Carter in Sydney about 2 years or so .

Bryan.

[Bryan Miller]

RT4-595.

1986 model originally ordered by Graeme Lawrence , but although deposit paid sponsorship didn.t arrive and car sat at factory for about 12 months , thence purchased by Bob Donaldson and assembled by Alan McCall in 1988 ,
1990 , Barry Thomlinson NZ.
1991 , Bob Donaldson , NZ.
1993 , Morris O'Riley NZ , not much use , then used in some Classic races 1996,
Purchased 1998 by Tim Davies [ Western Australia ] retained.

Bryan.

[Jeremy Hall]

I'm pretty sure that there is an RT4 sitting in the car museum at the World of Wearable Art (don't even think of asking) at Nelson in NZ. No chassis or car details on their website but there is a contact there.

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan

595 may be an issue. Ralt build record has this as sale to John Lloyd [USA] 17 Oct 85 [so 86 model] If so, Lloyd's 86 car and James King/rental drivers in 87.

The last thing I need right now is another car sitting unused for a year! There aren't enough 86s to go round as it is.

575 agree; add For sale by OT 17.10.88 p. 84 RT4/86 Scott Goodyear's winning car, fresh Jennings, Cliff 505 885 6137 guess this is Rademaker, so extends his ownership to Oct 88

RT4-82-157 is a rather suspect number. 157 in the Ralt build records is a FSV sold to John Neilsen, and the 1982 build range for RT4 starts at 266

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Chris,

Don't shoot me , I am only the messenger delivering the paperwork as presented as supporting evidence .

I am only too aware of some dubious histories , however with them out in the open then we can work towards resolving issues and suggesting to current owners that all is not correct with their research/supporting documentation.

Bryan.

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan

Does the owner have tub/fuel cell/gearbox nos?
[Esp fuel cell in this case...]

Chris

[Chris Townsend]

Chassis 592
having a problem accomodating this..
If 592 was McPherson's 86 NZ car then it won the championship there.
So 592 must be this car for sale in OT 22.2.88 p. 79 "87 WCAR winner, winner 86 Tasman Champ"
The problem here is that if it was both the 86 NZ champ and WCAR winner in 87 then it spent 87 in California not Australia, having a fairly active life in the hands of Johnny O'Connell, entered by McNeill Motorsports.

Chris

[Andrew Fellowes]

Roberto Moreno was in Surfers Paradise last week and he is a possible starter for Speed on Tweed next year if we can find his RT4. Anyone know where it is please?
This is an interesting page http://www.prostfan.com/racedet/82cal.htm for numbers.

[Chris Townsend]

Andrew

There are quite a lot of real ex Moreno RT4s [more than Michael Andretti had for sure]
You are looking for one of
261 1981 Australian GP
265 1981 Selangor and 1982 NZ series [I think Ian Ross has this one in AUS]
One of 204/209/210 [all ex Lane Sports] his car at Long Beach 1982 subsequently to Carlos Bobeda and then unknown
339 works development car used in late season 82 US, last seen with James King 1985
352 1982 Australian GP; last seen in US with Steve Shelton 1985
348 1982 Macau and early 1983 US; 1983 AGP; 1984 AGP
One or more of 347, 349 and 350 run by Kerry Agapiou in US 1983 season after Goold Motorsport ran out of money.

I think that's all. Did Roberto run Atlantic after 1984 AGP?

Chris

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

This is an interesting page http://www.prostfan.com/racedet/82cal.htm for numbers.

Some people really don't seem to understand the concept of copyright!

http://www.oldracingcars.com/results...sp?RaceID=AU82

Allen

[allenbrown]

OK, now they understand!

[Andrew Fellowes]

Suffering cats! Allen I should have looked at your site first, I just never even suspected, how naïve of me, the absolute hide of it!

Chris thank you for that, I will pass that all onto Roger at Speed.

[xbgs351]

There are some good Ralt RT4 photos including photos with the bodywork removed on www.my105.com.au at the moment. There are three of them for sale at the moment.

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

2.5 Ralt-Hart/Hill RT4-82-157

This car ended up with first Patrick Wood and then Richard Williams. Richard had a shunt at Pembrey with the car and is currently looking at a rebuild. It is still fitted with the Hart 2.5 engine.

Steve, could you find out if the owners have any back history on this car. Also, is the number given as 4-157-82? [This would be the format of a Bahner rebuild, original chassis number followed by date but 82 is probably too early for a Bahner.]
I've now found three RT4s built out of RT3s or RT30s, but an RT1 tub is something else. 82 would have to be the date of the conversion or the RT4 type they were attempting to build

Chris

[Chris Townsend]

Trying to trace what a group of early RT4s in NZ series in the late 80s might have been.
any information appreciated on the cars of
Peter Haskett
Stuart Murphy [81 spec cars in the 1986 series]

Richard Lester
Neil Allport
Charlie Thomasen [81 spec cars in the winter 87 series]
Steve Richards 82 spec car in that series

Also, in the 1985 series Rick Shea ran three cars for Tom Blackaller, Riley Hopkins and the Cameron brothers Grant and Rick [yes I know that's four drivers, the last three swapped between two cars]
Two of these cars may have stayed in NZ with Ken Smith, one probably in the constituent parts to which a Cameron had reduced it. [Probably chassis 284] Any idea what happened to these cars? Did anyone make any notes on these cars, or take any photos? Does anyone remember driving, or owning, an ex Shea RT4?

Chris

[Dan Rear]

I've seen somewhere recently on her, or t'other place, details of the current Irish Libre scene. Seems there are a couple of RT4s there. Anyone know histories of these, are they ex-1980s UK cars, or imports?

[Graz]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

I've seen somewhere recently on her, or t'other place, details of the current Irish Libre scene. Seems there are a couple of RT4s there. Anyone know histories of these, are they ex-1980s UK cars, or imports?

There's 1 RT4 driven by Ken Fildes (and sometimes also by his son Jonathan) and a Lant (RT4 South African convert) driven by Simon McKinley racing in Irish Formula Libre. Check out http://www.formulalibreireland.com/ where there are pictures etc. I'm sure if you sent an email someone would respond. Gorgeous cars.

[Chris Townsend]

After about three years I think it's time to break out the information on Ralt RT4s in the hope that someone can give me information on the gaps...

Ralt RT4s

1980 models

162 finished September 1979 used by Ray Mallock at Brands Atlantic race then sent to USA for testing. At this point the car has yellow bodywork. At Long Beach 1980 there are only two RT4s, and only two have actually been built by this point. Since Brabham has the newer car, 162 must, by default, be the car of Terry Knight, by which time it has red bodywork. Probably sold to Knight but remained largely unused. Sold to Eric Kerman Feb 83. Unknown since.

178 finished March 80 with black bodywork. Loaned by works to Psachie Racing for Geoff Brabham at Long Beach where it appears with red bodywork. Car then probably to Geoff Wood [with yellow bodywork] and used in 1980 North American series. Perhaps returned to works and taken to Australia prior to NZ Pacific series and destroyed in testing by John Smith [AS 15 Jan 81 p.50]

180 finished 30 June 80 red bodywork and delivered as a team car for Robertson's Ralt American operation. Does not appear before Long Beach 1981 when used as rental car by Joe Castellano. Probably a rental car elsewhere in 1981 including in SCCA finals for Peter Greenfield. REtained by Robertson 1982 and run as rental car for Frank Bramante [pro series] and Jeremy Hill [SCCA finals]. 1983 to Guy Revesz, [Chicago] retained to 1986 when for sale in OT and described as only 12 races. to James Burt 1987, then Bruce Poehlman, Les Mankowski 1989-91; Charles Warner and Derek Harling [1999-] Oldest known surviving RT4 that started life as an RT4...

185 finished 11 March 80 for David Leslie to run in British Atlantic series. 1981 David Duffield, retained to 1983 though some kind of deal allowed Ray Mallock to run the car in F2 in early 1982. 1984 James Stevenson in libre, then probably sold to USA and a strong candidate for the RT4/81 run by Michel Trombley at Sebring in 1988 [owned by Olney Marrs] Now believed to be in Florida

189 finished 20 June and sent to Robertson. Probably team car for Garvin Brown and not used until 1981, when raced by Danny Sullivan. Retained until 1982. Probably then sold to Bob Young (Colorado) to 1984, then to his mechanic Jon Evans.

199 finished 7 Aug for Alo Lawler. Raced in Atlantic series until end 83 then fitted with BMW engine and ran libre in 1984. To David Thompson for Australian F2 1985, Mark Potter 1989, Greg Doncovic 1991, Graham Mein 1998-

200 finished 9 Sept for Robertson. Debuts with Danny Sullivan as works car [dark blue body] at Montreal. Sold to David Oxton for 1981 NZ series, won championship. Sold mid 82 to Joey Cavaglieri [Van Nuys, California] unknown thereafter

[Chris Townsend]

1981 models

204 delivered Jan 81 to Lane Sports for Rogelio Rodriquez. 1982 to Rick Shea and retained as rental car until 1985

205 delivered Nov 80 to Dave McMillan for 1981 NZ series. Retained to 1983, winning 1982 US series, then to Mike Downs along with a Dart. For sale by Downs July 1985

209 Delivered Feb 81 to Lane Sports for Mike Rosen. Sold early 82 to Carlos Bobeda and run by him for Roberto Moreno at Long Beach. Retained 1983 and raced by Bobeda himself. Sold Sept 83 to Tom Ballantyne and build into C Sports Racer.

210 Delivered Feb 81 to Lane Sports for Norm Hunter. Sold late 81 to Tim Fortner and rented to Riley Hopkins for SCCA finals. Retained as rental car 82-84. 1985 to Phil Simon and retained until at least 1987

211 delivered Feb 81 to Jim Tulley for Whitney Ganz, used in pro series. Sold March 82 to Chris Bender [used in SCCA] Car burned out in trailer fire late 1982

212 delivered Feb 81 to Robertson, ostensibly for Jeff Wood, but deal fell through and probably eventually sold to John Connolly. For sale early 82 and unknown thereafter

213 delivered Feb 81 to Robertson as team car. Used by Geoff Brabham at Long Beach and intended for Cogan at Montreal [in the end he used new car] Probaby sold to Lane Sports as spare team car for 1982 and then to Rick Shea, retained to 1985 when badly damaged by Grant Campbell in NZ series. Remains sold to Ken Smith.

218 built Feb 81 for Ray Mallock to win 1981 British series, then taken to Macau. Sold to Colin Lees for 1982 Irish series, taken to Macau for Needell. 1983 to Ian Flux, then 84 Duncan Bain

219 delivered to Robertson late March 81 almost certainly for Allen Berg. History uncertain from end 81

227 delivered late May for Tim Coconis. Retained to May 84 then to Dale Lang, who retains the car to this day

228 to Whitney Ganz mid season as a second car. Ganz's spare in 1982, then to Rod Cusumano to 1984 and John Christian 1985

249 to Dan Marvin June 81 and used in pro series 81-82. Then used as hire car for Riley Hopkins 1983 and by Marvin in late season WCAR races. Then 1984 to Rick Lempe [Rick Sutherland] retained to at least 1987

252 to Tom Shelton mid 81 for SCCA and some pro races. Both Shelton cars for sale 1982 but this one retained and used by Steve Shelton to 1985 in SCCA and as display car. To Bill Wittkamper 1986-87

253 to Steve Shelton mid 81. For sale 1982 but perhaps not sold until 84. Then probably to John Clark [Herndon VA] and to Prather Racing for Freddy Rhemrev 1987

More to follow

[Steve Wilkinson]

From 1989 I have a 1.6 RT4 being driven by Steve Elmore in the British Sprint championship; any clues on which chassis this was?