Skaife blasts critics!

[Chatters]

Originally Posted by Senna05

Just out of curiosity, has anyone else noticed the decline of Gp A Era drivers in the Blueprint era?

While I still personally think Skaife is better than 2 members in here are proclaiming, he, included with Bowe and Seton never did go as well in the BA/VY-E than in previous, non blueprinted vehicles.

It has to be more than just age. These guys just never seemed to go as well with the stiffer vehicles. Seto was semi competititve in the AU's, as was Bowe, and then they slid off down the field. And I've seen footage of Skaife in 01/02 that suggests that he would have survived yesterday in a VX.

Just an observation. I know it won't shut you detractors up, but it seems to be a trend. One that will end with Skaife, of course.

That has to be the most sensible post on the last two pages. Well said.

[billy bigtime]

Originally Posted by deeks6

Um, good comeback ... Whincup is actually 4th in the Championship, 258 points up the road from the Nose - even after missing a full round thanks to one of the Holden Fixit Boys ... even more unsure why you would want to compare Skaife to him.

You shoulda quit while you were way behind!

Fact is Skaife is 13th in the Championship in (at least equal) the best car.

Fact is he is being embarrassed by his teammate, 378 points adrift in the Championship (not to mention a few wins, poles, podiums).

Fact is that there are at least Davison, Holdsworth, Courtney, Coulthard, BOMB and McConville ahead of him who are driving inferior machinery. May as well add Junior, Murf and Van Wilder who are all close to him in points as well.

Fact is that he WAS a great champion driver.

Fact is that he IS NOT ANYMORE.

Finally a sensible and truthful post, well said deeks

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by peckstar

that was a pretty week comback stealthy, if that is the best you can come back with the Skaife is gone

I was just stating someone else who has gotten no (or little in skaifes case) points from a round.


No-one has said he is going to eat everyone for the championship for the next 6 years, were just saying he still has pace with the best of them. Lap times prove that....

[RotorFan]

The reason people have a problem with Skaife is because he dominated V8 Supercars. People don't like domination, trying to improve yourself is too hard. Its easier to just hate someone who is doing better than you.

But to ease up on the bloke when he isn't winning anymore - that would only confirm that their hate towards him was corrupt, so they must continue the facade.

Anyway, I find the VX vs blueprinted VY discussion interesting... Supposedly blueprint was a gain for the Commodore in suspension. Was this really the case? Has wishbone really turned out to be superior to macpherson, or is there more to it than that?

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

The reason people have a problem with Skaife is because he dominated V8 Supercars. People don't like domination, trying to improve yourself is too hard. Its easier to just hate someone who is doing better than you.

But to ease up on the bloke when he isn't winning anymore - that would only confirm that their hate towards him was corrupt, so they must continue the facade.

Anyway, I find the VX vs blueprinted VY discussion interesting... Supposedly blueprint was a gain for the Commodore in suspension. Was this really the case? Has wishbone really turned out to be superior to macpherson, or is there more to it than that?

holden changed to the double wishbone suspension and whoever makes change is always disadvantaged initially. That probably allowed SBR to dominate for a few years, mainly with Ambrose who IMO is an exceptional talent. Then triple 8 and FPR started to get their act together and have been able to surpass SBR taking the fight up to the leading holden teams, with an aging Skaife and Kelly boys not quite able to dominate.

[Bimmerhead]

Well then maybe Project Blueprint is doing just what was intended......we don't have one team dominating anymore do we!!

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

The reason people have a problem with Skaife is because he dominated V8 Supercars. People don't like domination, trying to improve yourself is too hard. Its easier to just hate someone who is doing better than you.

Yes, Skaife is an easy target, especially for the Ford fans who hate to see winners in Holdens. I wonder just how much respect Skaife would gain if he drove a Ford instead? Lowndes was hated just as much by the same mob.

It's poor form to bag a champion simply because he's a champion and a great ambassador for the sport. The tall poppy syndrome is alive and well. Slur another human being because it somehow makes up for one's own failings...

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Yes, Skaife is an easy target, especially for the Ford fans who hate to see winners in Holdens.

I think thats the point you are missing - he is NOT a winner any more

Originally Posted by SSbaby

I wonder just how much respect Skaife would gain if he drove a Ford instead?

No more than he commands now ... in fact, if you actually read the posts, you might see that almost every Ford fan has acknowledged that Skaife was one of the best drivers - they hate him for other reasons just like a lot of Holden fans do too. They are just noting his demise as a contender now. Ambrose and Murf also inspire similar feelings but never on the scale that Skaife did.

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Lowndes was hated just as much by the same mob.

No, he was'nt. He was universally liked by both sides of the fence, just like he is now. Just like Frosty, Holdsworth, probably Whincup, McConky and several others.

Originally Posted by SSbaby

It's poor form to bag a champion simply because he's a champion and a great ambassador for the sport. The tall poppy syndrome is alive and well. Slur another human being because it somehow makes up for one's own failings...

Again, they are commenting that he is gone as a true contender. A great ambassador for the sport? I don't think so. AND ... he's only a short poppy these days ... about the 13th tallest at last count.

And "slur another human being" would account for the majority of your posts, I would reckon

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Yes, Skaife is an easy target, especially for the Ford fans who hate to see winners in Holdens. I wonder just how much respect Skaife would gain if he drove a Ford instead? Lowndes was hated just as much by the same mob.

It's poor form to bag a champion simply because he's a champion and a great ambassador for the sport. The tall poppy syndrome is alive and well. Slur another human being because it somehow makes up for one's own failings...

actually i was just as harsh on seton. as i have mentioned more that happy for skaife to be in the no 2 car because thats one less holden we have to worry about for the championship.

Take a look at the top ten in the championship and notice all the holden drivers in the top ten and the two main holden teams only have one car there when they should have two (just like the two main ford teams)

[fomoco]

MS has always been disliked by many, For some years now, It has nothing to do with winning races, Championships etc, It is just the way he expresses himself that turns people off. Maybe he needs to do a course in communication, and stop blaming everybody else.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by deeks6

I think thats the point you are missing - he is NOT a winner any more

No more than he commands now ... in fact, if you actually read the posts, you might see that almost every Ford fan has acknowledged that Skaife was one of the best drivers - they hate him for other reasons just like a lot of Holden fans do too. They are just noting his demise as a contender now. Ambrose and Murf also inspire similar feelings but never on the scale that Skaife did.

No, he was'nt. He was universally liked by both sides of the fence, just like he is now. Just like Frosty, Holdsworth, probably Whincup, McConky and several others.


Again, they are commenting that he is gone as a true contender. A great ambassador for the sport? I don't think so. AND ... he's only a short poppy these days ... about the 13th tallest at last count.

And "slur another human being" would account for the majority of your posts, I would reckon

I accidentally read your post as I wasn't logged in (you are on my ignore list so don't bother replying to me personally in future ) ... but I couldn't resist making one particular comment in reply to your usual depressive attacks.

I don't bag champions. I only bag imbeciles.

[Muznik]

Originally Posted by fomoco

MS has always been disliked by many, For some years now, It has nothing to do with winning races, Championships etc, It is just the way he expresses himself that turns people off. Maybe he needs to do a course in communication, and stop blaming everybody else.

Its funny I keep hearing this with regards to Mark.

IMHO he doesnt "whinge" as much as some others.

Ive heard rumours of arrogance, beefs with staff, crew and other drivers (well some have been evident)

In my dealings as nothing more than an average fan he, on at least 3 x seperate occassions, has taken the time for a chat or an autograph when he could have just brushed me.

In one instance Skaife was running late for a sponsor commitment at Indy and another was at Bathurst as the cars were being wheeled out at practice he noticed I had a particular piece of merchandise and came over and signed it without me even really needing to ask.

I have found him to be approachable, professional & cheerful. Unfortunately I cant say the same for a couple of other drivers, even when at official signing sessions.

Maybe I have just been lucky.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by fomoco

MS has always been disliked by many, For some years now, It has nothing to do with winning races, Championships etc, It is just the way he expresses himself that turns people off. Maybe he needs to do a course in communication, and stop blaming everybody else.

Yeah, he's not my favourite driver either. But you don't hear me bagging him.
What peeves me is the continual personal attacks on certain figureheads that has nothing to do with motor-racing. The same old antics from the same few - "the schnozz, the real owner, crash bandicoot..." - gee that all takes some intelligence to write about, NOT!

To balance my opinion, I have been critical of Ambrose before, but not personally. That guy is a proven champion... even in his currently short career, he's achieved plenty and was unlucky not to achieve more. I've also been critical of Junior Johnson... and that's for his lack of talent. Coincidentally, they're all Ford drivers. But you know what else? I'm also critical of Dumbrell - he's a fish out of water, IMO... and he drives for the best Holden outfit which is, arguably, just plain wrong.

And I do beg to differ. If you listen to Skaife, he is one of the most professional persons in the motorsport world. He is far from just a good driver, he is an excellent model for sponsors and the like. I love listening to him talk sport and cars. Much like I enjoy Brad Jones' and Crompton's commentary... and also Alan Jones' (of F1 fame).

[F J Nedos]

I think it is worth mentioning that a post made by an individual here should not be interpreted as a statement of fact which is then set in stone as a compulsory belief for all thread contributors. We all have our own personal opinions on this, and by insulting someone else on this forum who differs from you surely goes against the principles of an open forum.

Have your opinion. You are entitled to it. Let someone else have their opinion, they are entitled to it. The insulting or disparaging remarks for others who differ from you, either directly or inferred, makes unpleasant reading. It's boring, guys.

This thread does raise a few questions as Skaife is no longer raking in championships as he has in the past. Yes you are going to get your Skaife bashers come in here and say their thing - let them! If Mr Skaife actually comes into this forum and reads these posts, it will only serve as further ammunition or motivation. I for one am not going to deny the Skaife bashers their freedom of speech.

I note that previous posts talk about a reference to Craig Lowndes. Yes Lowndes might be higher in the championship than Skaife. I am pretty sure the reference was more pointing towards the fact that both Lowndes and Skaife were past multiple champions, yet they are both being outgunned by younger teammates. Something which is happening consistently. Championship position at this point of the year isn't the reference or point.

If anyone is continuing with the Skaife retirement stance, I can only think that it means that they still rate Skaife as a danger. You get rid of a guy who has massive amount of experience, is bloody quick and is in a good car - and all of a sudden you are down to one less threat to your own ambitions or support base. They may realise that if he finally stops walking under ladders around black cats and he rids himself of the bad luck, then someone who has previously dominated can come back and be a threat.

Think about it - at Bathurst when he was paired with Garth. That car was untouchable all weekend leading up until the race. It was a bloody big touch of an ailing car up its clacker which ended it all. Had that not happened, no one else would have come close to taking that race. And I say that with the utmost respect to Lowndes and Whincup who raced very well and deserved their win.

Of more recent history - Clutch dramas at Eastern Creek. The car qualifed on the front row (from memory). It got away slowly and was a handicap for the rest of the weekend.

Hamilton - missing the pit entry. A bad luck call with the safety car etc. He was comfortably in front of Garth (and the rest of the field I might add). He only lost the lead due to the neccessity of a compulsory stop, for which others managed during a safety car.

WA? The car was on top or near enough on top of every time sheet. He raced very well in race 1. Some say it was because Garth had tyre life issues. So did Skaife. Yes he had an incident with BPB on race 2 - he isn't the only victim here. Had he not sucumbed to the slippery outside line and imminent contact with BPB, he would have probably finished the round in 2nd place.

Now compare his potential and actual results minus his luck, with Dumbrell. Dumbrell is in last years championship winning chassis and team. If he even managed a top 10 finish, then as Billy Connolly mentioned "A murkle" will have occured. Last time I looked, HRT and HSV had pretty bloody similar equipment and potential...

One thing I have noticed is the pressure of team ownership. Now I know some on here will laugh at the suggested that Skaife actually owns HRT. Simple fact of the matter is that he would have some legal liability with HRT and he would have resposibility that a lot of other drivers in the field would not have. This pressure does seem to affect results, I am not too sure why but history does suggest this. I can think of Larry Perkins (with Ingall as his teammate fighting for the championship), Dick Johnson (with Bowe fighting for the championship), and more recently Jason Bright. Now before people suggest that Brighty moved to a lesser team, remember he took his FPR chassis with him - the very chassis that the previous year under CAT colours was at or near the top of the podium. He took some staff with him too - so chassis, driver, engineers were all the same. But he became a back marker. This is a guy with considerable talent but who is of late making up the numbers at best. He doesn't look like cracking it for a podium/win. People are happy not to talk about retirement for him...

People said that Skaife had not performed well in the last few years. In those last few years, Todd Kelly was at that team during those years and he didn't win a championship, get lots of pole positions or race wins. Now I have never rated T Kelly, yet he isn't overy slow or dumb.

Garth rocks up with form and some staff. And he is up there all the time. So could it be that HRT wasn't the all conquering machine it was a few years ago, but now with staff changes is getting back to realising full potential?

I don't think Skaife has ever lost his speed. He's just lost luck and maybe a minor amount of enthusiasm due to events outside the track. Do I think he will be a championship contender in the near future? Probably not. But do I think he will be there or thereabouts? Definitely.

If you want a home for James Courtney in a holden, give him Car #16. But to replace Skaife is plain silly.

I still maintain that if HRT pair Skaife and Garf together at Bathurst, then they will be red hot favourites. I wouldn't be saying the same thing if Garf and James would be paired together.

This is my opinion, nothing more. I maintain that I will respect the right for others to have their own opinion and the ability to express it. By no means am I going to ridicule others who differ. I think that principle could be better adhered to in here, so that we continue to have a great forum to use (go the grid girls thread...)

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

But you don't hear me bagging him.

Originally Posted by SSbaby

I've also been critical of Junior Johnson... and that's for his lack of talent. I'm also critical of Dumbrell - he's a fish out of water,

Whats wrong with this picture?

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by F J Nedos

I think it is worth mentioning that a post made by an individual here should not be interpreted as a statement of fact which is then set in stone as a compulsory belief for all thread contributors. We all have our own personal opinions on this, and by insulting someone else on this forum who differs from you surely goes against the principles of an open forum.

Have your opinion. You are entitled to it. Let someone else have their opinion, they are entitled to it. The insulting or disparaging remarks for others who differ from you, either directly or inferred, makes unpleasant reading. It's boring, guys.

This thread does raise a few questions as Skaife is no longer raking in championships as he has in the past. Yes you are going to get your Skaife bashers come in here and say their thing - let them! If Mr Skaife actually comes into this forum and reads these posts, it will only serve as further ammunition or motivation. I for one am not going to deny the Skaife bashers their freedom of speech.

I note that previous posts talk about a reference to Craig Lowndes. Yes Lowndes might be higher in the championship than Skaife. I am pretty sure the reference was more pointing towards the fact that both Lowndes and Skaife were past multiple champions, yet they are both being outgunned by younger teammates. Something which is happening consistently. Championship position at this point of the year isn't the reference or point.

If anyone is continuing with the Skaife retirement stance, I can only think that it means that they still rate Skaife as a danger. You get rid of a guy who has massive amount of experience, is bloody quick and is in a good car - and all of a sudden you are down to one less threat to your own ambitions or support base. They may realise that if he finally stops walking under ladders around black cats and he rids himself of the bad luck, then someone who has previously dominated can come back and be a threat.

Think about it - at Bathurst when he was paired with Garth. That car was untouchable all weekend leading up until the race. It was a bloody big touch of an ailing car up its clacker which ended it all. Had that not happened, no one else would have come close to taking that race. And I say that with the utmost respect to Lowndes and Whincup who raced very well and deserved their win.

Of more recent history - Clutch dramas at Eastern Creek. The car qualifed on the front row (from memory). It got away slowly and was a handicap for the rest of the weekend.

Hamilton - missing the pit entry. A bad luck call with the safety car etc. He was comfortably in front of Garth (and the rest of the field I might add). He only lost the lead due to the neccessity of a compulsory stop, for which others managed during a safety car.

WA? The car was on top or near enough on top of every time sheet. He raced very well in race 1. Some say it was because Garth had tyre life issues. So did Skaife. Yes he had an incident with BPB on race 2 - he isn't the only victim here. Had he not sucumbed to the slippery outside line and imminent contact with BPB, he would have probably finished the round in 2nd place.

Now compare his potential and actual results minus his luck, with Dumbrell. Dumbrell is in last years championship winning chassis and team. If he even managed a top 10 finish, then as Billy Connolly mentioned "A murkle" will have occured. Last time I looked, HRT and HSV had pretty bloody similar equipment and potential...

One thing I have noticed is the pressure of team ownership. Now I know some on here will laugh at the suggested that Skaife actually owns HRT. Simple fact of the matter is that he would have some legal liability with HRT and he would have resposibility that a lot of other drivers in the field would not have. This pressure does seem to affect results, I am not too sure why but history does suggest this. I can think of Larry Perkins (with Ingall as his teammate fighting for the championship), Dick Johnson (with Bowe fighting for the championship), and more recently Jason Bright. Now before people suggest that Brighty moved to a lesser team, remember he took his FPR chassis with him - the very chassis that the previous year under CAT colours was at or near the top of the podium. He took some staff with him too - so chassis, driver, engineers were all the same. But he became a back marker. This is a guy with considerable talent but who is of late making up the numbers at best. He doesn't look like cracking it for a podium/win. People are happy not to talk about retirement for him...

People said that Skaife had not performed well in the last few years. In those last few years, Todd Kelly was at that team during those years and he didn't win a championship, get lots of pole positions or race wins. Now I have never rated T Kelly, yet he isn't overy slow or dumb.

Garth rocks up with form and some staff. And he is up there all the time. So could it be that HRT wasn't the all conquering machine it was a few years ago, but now with staff changes is getting back to realising full potential?

I don't think Skaife has ever lost his speed. He's just lost luck and maybe a minor amount of enthusiasm due to events outside the track. Do I think he will be a championship contender in the near future? Probably not. But do I think he will be there or thereabouts? Definitely.

If you want a home for James Courtney in a holden, give him Car #16. But to replace Skaife is plain silly.

I still maintain that if HRT pair Skaife and Garf together at Bathurst, then they will be red hot favourites. I wouldn't be saying the same thing if Garf and James would be paired together.

This is my opinion, nothing more. I maintain that I will respect the right for others to have their own opinion and the ability to express it. By no means am I going to ridicule others who differ. I think that principle could be better adhered to in here, so that we continue to have a great forum to use (go the grid girls thread...)

Don't know if you were referring to my post in particular but regardless, great post. I don't think it will end the typical unethical bashing (OF CERTAIN CHAMPION DRIVERS) that goes on...

[Reload]

Good read !!

Skaife and Tander as RAGING HOT FAVOURITES at Bathurst !!!
I think Lowndes and Whincup would argue that one.

[rustyinsthoz]

Originally Posted by lowgto

Good read !!

Skaife and Tander as RAGING HOT FAVOURITES at Bathurst !!!
I think Lowndes and Whincup would argue that one.

And so woulds S Richards and Winterbottom

[F J Nedos]

Lowndes and Whincup would be the other odds on. I wouldn't dispute that.

Frosty and BPB wouldnt rate as highly for mine. BPB has done OK at bathurst in the past, but I just don't see him as an outright winner on pace and consistency. Frosty would go OK though.

All three pairings mentioned would be in the top 3 for honours though.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by lowgto

Good read !!

Skaife and Tander as RAGING HOT FAVOURITES at Bathurst !!!
I think Lowndes and Whincup would argue that one.

If I was Tander, I wouldn't be too happy about having Skaife as a partner......I see him more as a liability these days.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by bluesport

If I was Tander, I wouldn't be too happy about having Skaife as a partner......I see him more as a liability these days.

As strange as it may sound... I AGREE with you. I wouldn't want that bad luck coming my way either.

Then again, would you also want JC to partner you, if you were Tander?

Both Skaife and Tander might have to be content with 'second string' co-drivers.

[00 XR8]

Originally Posted by F J Nedos

BPB has done OK at bathurst in the past, but I just don't see him as an outright winner on pace and consistency. Frosty would go OK though.

Did you happen to see last year's Bathurst? Remember the bit where Richo handed Frosty the #6 Falcon for him to do the final stint? The car was in the lead at the time.

On pace and consistency, Richo deserved to win that race last year......... it was only a mistake by his co-driver that robbed him of victory. Looking at his Bathurst record, I think "one of the finest Bathurst drivers of his generation" is a more apt description than "done OK".

Although it should be noted that whether FPR, or HRT for that matter, pair there gun drivers this year is still up for discussion.........

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

As strange as it may sound... I AGREE with you. I wouldn't want that bad luck coming my way either.

Then again, would you also want JC to partner you, if you were Tander?

Both Skaife and Tander might have to be content with 'second string' co-drivers.

No, you don't agree with me at all. It's not bad luck. It's poor judgement and IMO a refusal by Skaife to acknowledge that his circumstances have changed and that he is not the dominant force he used to be. He is making his own bad luck.

[billy bigtime]

Well as long as MarkS doesn't fry his clutch again it should be a good race.

[Malfunction Junction]

I was going to mention the clutch, but it's been done. Not the first time either, nor does he have an exclusive claim to the complaint.

FJ has made some interesting points - I won't quote the whole thread again, but I have to say this;

At a couple of points in his career, Skaife has had reality checks that have brought his attitude into check. "The crash" at Eastern Creek was one, Freddie's team going effectively bellyup was another, but when he took on a financial stake in HRT (and I know I used above, but that was in relation to him calling the shots - I think he's a middle manager) he had a change in attitude, became - in my view - more reckless and seemed to be untouchable in terms of reliability, while toddler found himself with freaky things like brand new gearsticks coming off in his hand. Things have changed recently and rather than getting a bit angry or upset as some might have done, he's got a bit more relaxed, like he doesn't feel the pressure to succeed.

I have accordingly softened my dislike of the man, he's still got speed, but I'd hate to see him do a Larry and go on well into decline. That was all a bit sad towards the end.