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16 Aug 2009, 00:42 (Ref:2522117) | #51 | ||
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Sorry guys -you miss my point--- 10 cars is a joke.If making it "affordable" creates 30 plus surely that is a better event.Taking an elitist approach and having no base is destined for failure. Creating series that caters for wider interest ( even if it is in classes) is surely a better basis for any series.
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16 Aug 2009, 01:16 (Ref:2522124) | #52 | ||
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For club racing, yes. For a series that is a serious GT championship which acts as a stepping stone for potential LMS/FIA GT squads, as well as long standing GT teams wishing to compete at a top national level, no.
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16 Aug 2009, 03:03 (Ref:2522141) | #53 | |||
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I'm a former employee of Mosler, but I still keep in touch with them. This sucks for Rollcentre...disqualifying them 3/4's of the way thru the season isn't right. |
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16 Aug 2009, 07:22 (Ref:2522182) | #54 | ||
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BGT have not done Donnington GP, so going back to Snett where both have run recently: Pole time for Q1 BGT was the Mosler on a 1:09.286 Pole time for Q2 BGT was a 430 GT3 on a 1:08.455 Fastest lap R1 BGT was the Ascari on a 1:09.731 Fastest lap R2 BGT was the 430 GT3 on a 1:09.773 compared to Pole time for Q1 GT Cup was the Viper on a 1:08.664 Fastest lap R1 GT Cup was the Viper on a 1:09.558 Fastest lap R2 GT Cup was the Viper on a 1:09.012 GT cup was a 29 car grid, vs BGT was 12 you can't go making sweeping staments like that, to make out that the GT cup teams are all micky-mouse is just showing a HUGE lack of knowledge of the people in this kind of racing, IMHO there are more proffessional teams in GT cup than BGT. |
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16 Aug 2009, 08:12 (Ref:2522196) | #55 | ||
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This a joke, I really do feel sorry for Shorty and the boys at Rollcentre. It is worth pointing out that there have been Mosler's in the British GT Championships since at least 2002 (I remember seeing one race at Donington in the last round of the season)
I just get the impression that Mr Ratel doesn't want the car in any of his series and he want's only big well know manufactors. |
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16 Aug 2009, 09:28 (Ref:2522226) | #56 | |||
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British GT seems to penalise their GT3 cars quite heavily compared to other GT3 championships, that much I do know. Compare the times to those of the Belgian GT runners at Spa this year, they were signifcantly slower, and the main reason for that is that the British GT cars run with a slightly larger restrictor. The fact that the GT cup UK guys can lap quicker than the British GT guys I would assume is more down to the regulations rather than talent. Speaking of talent, lets look at some of the drivers who have raced in British GT so far this year. Allan Simonsen, Vincent Vosse, Stuart Hall, Dan Brown, Adam Wilcox. Now lets look at whos been in GT cup UK so far. Mike Gardener, Paul Hogarth, Peter Seldon, Michael Donavon. Now, I dont know what everyone else here thinks but personally, after comparing some of both championships top drivers I think that the British GT championship has a signifcantly higher calibre of drivers at the sharp end of the grid. Although this has gone massively off topic now and theres really nothing more to say from me so I will take a step back now. |
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16 Aug 2009, 09:50 (Ref:2522237) | #57 | |||
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While we are off topic(not sure we are actually) Simon i am agreeing with you here and you appear to agree with the principle of what I have said--- can you tell me how this position you are expressing here is different to what you were sticking pins in me earlier this year(&last) about situation in Australia--or have you seen the light? Salleen's comments are elitist nonsense--who do you think is going to do the paying for "professional" drivers? Ten cars and little public interest are not going to excite to many manufacturers or sponsors! |
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16 Aug 2009, 09:59 (Ref:2522246) | #58 | |||
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What is a national GT-series suppossed to be? The Mosler controversy is part of that question, as is your argument about driver quality. As I see it, there are two main parameters on which a GT series can be defined: 1. The cars: the possiblities range from a Spec-Series (say Porsche Cup) to a wide open run-what-you-brung-ruleset like in Dutch Supercars or Belcar until a few years ago. GT3 is somewhere in the middle, you have a good variety of car types, but every Ferrari is like the other, as is every Porsche. 2. The drivers: the scale goes from complete amateurs to fully professionals, with experienced gentleman drivers and semi-pros in between. Ideally, every series would be all-pro, with a wide open rulebook. As we know, that's not gonna happen, so we have two basic possiblities: Go pro-ish and have a tightly regulated rulebook or cater to amateurs who want to play with their favourite (and sometimes selfbuilt or selfdesigned) toys. As evidenced by the success of DSC, Britcar or Belcar until the GT3-era I would tend to go for the latter. And it's not like that concept would completely rule out professional drivers, Belcar had teams like SRT and GLPK and drivers like Kumpen and Longin... |
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16 Aug 2009, 09:59 (Ref:2522247) | #59 | ||
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16 Aug 2009, 10:03 (Ref:2522250) | #60 | |||
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My elitist nonsense, as you describe my comments, are because we are now discussing which is the premier GT racing series in the UK, which is British GT. GT cup UK has its place, it isnt usually discussed here on this forum but usually in the national and club racing forum here on ten-tenths, because it is fundamentally a club series. As for not being off topic, this thread is about the Mosler being thrown out of British GT. Something which seems to have been forgotton about over the last few posts and something which I myself am guilty of too which is why I think we should get it back on topic. IMO. |
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16 Aug 2009, 10:22 (Ref:2522262) | #61 | |||
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1st session, Brit GT- Dan Brown (Mosler) 2m29.566 1st session, Belgian GT- Wauters/van Hooydonk (Viper) 2m25.880 2nd session, Brit GT- Allan Simonsen (Ferrari) 2m26.396 (and no-one else got below 2m28....) 2nd session, Belgian GT- Renard//Vosse (Aston) 2m23.950! DSC suggested that a big part of the difference could be tyres- Brit GT's control Avons being clearly slower than the Belgian series Michelins. As DSC's qualifying report put it back in May: Quote:
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16 Aug 2009, 10:50 (Ref:2522270) | #62 | ||
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Think Britcar uses Dunlop like Dutch Supercar
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16 Aug 2009, 14:32 (Ref:2522356) | #63 | ||
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16 Aug 2009, 16:46 (Ref:2522403) | #64 | ||
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16 Aug 2009, 16:53 (Ref:2522405) | #65 | ||
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Britcar and Brit GT both use Avon?
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16 Aug 2009, 17:14 (Ref:2522409) | #66 | ||
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Sorry.. misread the earlier post.
Brit GT - Avon Britcar - Dunlop GT Cup - Pirelli So comparing times is a bit tricky. Last edited by Dan Friel; 16 Aug 2009 at 17:15. Reason: Extra sentence at end! |
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16 Aug 2009, 17:22 (Ref:2522414) | #67 | ||
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BGT *is* a national club championship, you can dress it up as much as you want, but it's NOT on an international ticket. if you actually look at most of the GT cup runners, almost all of them have run in BGT before, as have a lot from Britcar. I would also argue that NO BGT team have ever paid a driver (in recent history), if there is a paid driver in the car that's because the owner is paying for them as a fast co-driver (I accept this may be channelled though the team, but that's not the point). Essentially, BGT needs to get back to sensible cars and budgets, dump all the pretentious crap and concentrate on the racing, as in it's current form it's a worthless championship. |
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16 Aug 2009, 18:26 (Ref:2522451) | #68 | ||
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Beechdean pay Jamie Smyth to race for them, as im pretty sure Allan Simonsen is paid to race in the Christians in motorsport Ferrari ferrari alongside Hector Lester as well.
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16 Aug 2009, 19:07 (Ref:2522478) | #69 | ||
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Christians in motorsport *is* Hector. I would assume the same for Beechdean |
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16 Aug 2009, 19:10 (Ref:2522486) | #70 | |
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Professional drivers in BGT currently - Allan Simonsen, Matt Griffin, Adam Wilcox, Aaron Scott, Jamie Smyth, Alex Mortimer. Others who have competed this year - Michael Bentwood, José Balbiani, Stéphane Daoudi, Phil Keen, Vincent Vosse, Mike Wilds.
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16 Aug 2009, 19:40 (Ref:2522515) | #71 | ||
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Looking on the brightside-the Ascari failed to finish today!!!
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17 Aug 2009, 00:01 (Ref:2522670) | #72 | ||
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well i never thought my first thread on here would create such a arguement/debate.
BGt, GT Cup or Britcar whichever is best is.... down to opinion on what a person thinks makes up the best championship whether it be the drivers, cars or gride numbers. its quite clear BGT is in trouble big time though and IMO its at its worst right now. oh and just to go back to what the thread was originally about i think we all agree that whats happened to the rollcentre crew is terrible and should never have happened and its also very damaging for the MSA's, SRO's and BGT's image. |
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17 Aug 2009, 03:41 (Ref:2522735) | #73 | |
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17 Aug 2009, 06:23 (Ref:2522765) | #74 | ||
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the time to change the regs/throw out/allow cars is out of season - and preferably enough time before the season for people to put budget's etc in place. this is EXACTLY what SRO have done before, I got stitched up with the ProSport (even though they had been running in BGT for 3 years previously) the only difference here is that MSA refused to even look at it (they knew there was no legitimate way to present this). this time they have gone with semantics, usually the last refuge when your in the wrong. My only hope is that with it being Martin and his operation being somewhat more high profile than me, he can get some more clout behind him. At the end of the day, MSA need to grow some, and take BGT off SRO and give it to somebody that can actually do the job, including standing up to existing owners/teams. |
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17 Aug 2009, 06:41 (Ref:2522767) | #75 | ||
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I just can't stand the hypocrisy in this, both cars have questions over their eligibility but one of them is still in production and is the one being banned thanks to a protest by the team running a car that has smaller production numbers and isnt even built anymore. Has this world gone mad?? I'm guessing there arent that many Mosler roadcars out there but they would be greater in number then the Ascaris.
I'm not happy about this, we had to put up with this crap with regarding the Moslers in Australian GT, (they werent banned but the performance handicaps given to the Mosler raced by Craig Baird was nothing short of pathetic-its not his fault he's a damn good driver). I feel greatly for the hard working team at Rollcentre Racing and hopefully something gets worked out and the Moslers get back in again. |
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