Is the future bright for Formula one?

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by miatanut

The current systems convert mechanical energy into electrical energy, then electrical energy into chemical energy, then chemical energy into electrical energy, then electrical energy into mechanical energy, which is why they are only 30% efficient. You wouldn't want to do it that way to have a competitive turbine car. You would want to do mechanical to CVT to drive the wheels when you want 70% or more power, then go to the storage when you want less than 70%. That's where the storage would allow you to downsize the primary power plant for the 70% to 100% stuff.

Well that's a refinement you didn't mention earlier, though I am sure it was in your mind. Indeed if you did things that way you could gain a big step in efficiency albeit at the expense of a jump in complexity. I was thinking of a fully electric transmission like a diesel electric loco, they have very high efficiency but weight is not such an issue and their nice efficient generators and motors are VERY heavy.

I've always wondered how fast the current KERS cars would be if you let 'em loose and removed all restrictions on when the KERS could charge and discharge and allowed them automated control systems to manage the process, several seconds a lap quicker at any of the faster tracks I would think. Probably disappear in a cloud of smoke after a few laps though.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Well that's a refinement you didn't mention earlier, though I am sure it was in your mind. Indeed if you did things that way you could gain a big step in efficiency albeit at the expense of a jump in complexity. I was thinking of a fully electric transmission like a diesel electric loco, they have very high efficiency but weight is not such an issue and their nice efficient generators and motors are VERY heavy.

I've always wondered how fast the current KERS cars would be if you let 'em loose and removed all restrictions on when the KERS could charge and discharge and allowed them automated control systems to manage the process, several seconds a lap quicker at any of the faster tracks I would think. Probably disappear in a cloud of smoke after a few laps though.

The original discussion was in terms of a turbine/electric approach with batteries, but that wouldn't be optimum.

I was really looking forward to KERS when it was first announced, and then it got dumbed-down to preserve the status quo.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by miatanut

I was really looking forward to KERS when it was first announced, and then it got dumbed-down to preserve the status quo.

Just imagine, for example, that William's had used their 'unrestricted' system and it made their car 3 seconds a lap faster than anyone elses.

It was 'dumbed-down' so that people would still find the will to watch F1 even if someone came up with a system that was vastly superior (but not necessarily of any benefit to road cars).

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Just imagine, for example, that William's had used their 'unrestricted' system and it made their car 3 seconds a lap faster than anyone elses.

It was 'dumbed-down' so that people would still find the will to watch F1 even if someone came up with a system that was vastly superior (but not necessarily of any benefit to road cars).

I felt at the time that they should have allowed complete freedom in how it was used and controled and limited the energy storage to a level at which It would have been worth doing but not a crushing advantage, I still feel that way now. Instead they went for a higher limit on energy but a set of silly petty and arbitrary rules on what you did with it.

[Tim the Grey]

If they meant for KERS to be useful, it should be an energy conservation/regeneration system, reclaiming energy when slowing, and inputting under acceleration? Whenever it's required.
THAT would be relevant to roadcar use, and useful.

Opportunity lost, though.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

Instead they went for a higher limit on energy but a set of silly petty and arbitrary rules on what you did with it.

Max's original proposal was that the weight of the system would be limited and teams would be free to cram as much energy as they could into a system of that weight.

Then we would have had a real technology race, like the old days!

I'd take the days when the two cars from the best team win by over a mile if we could have the sort of technological development we had back then.