MSNZ & TMC - 'Wheels start to come off'

[promax]

there you go barking up the wrong tree again ... never ever claimed to be a fan of TMC.. or pretender to be a part of TMC

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by promax

there you go barking up the wrong tree again ... never ever claimed to be a fan of TMC.. or pretender to be a part of TMC

Woof!

Okay, so you are an ardent NZV8 supporter then with a vested interest - but uf even you don't like TMC then surely we should get rid of them???

[promax]

agree

[socram]

Being the organiser of a group that has had 100+ active racing members for several years (ERC Series - that is Arrow Wheels as the faster group, AES sponsor the slower group), as Roger points out we have zero representation, as all drivers have to be members of an MSNZ Club anyway. There is no point in going down the route of an incorporated society just so that we can get affiliated to MSNZ to pay them a heap of extra cash and get just one wasted vote in return.

One vote to the BMW car club with about 120 active circuit racers, Alfa with about 30, MG (Auckland) with about 25 and so on, plus the Formula Juniors 20? Historic Formua Fords 20? Historics 20? F5000's 30? Super Historics 10? Muscle Cars (Central, Northern, Historic etc) guessing, 80+? There are also a fair few Auckland Car Club members racing classics too. Get the drift? This is just the Northern part of the North Island.

It is NOT democratic and as long as it is one vote per club on every issue, whether they have 100 racers or rally members, or nil, is hopelessly unfair. Between TACCOC, HRC and the other named marque clubs, it is still a minimal number of votes for several hundred racers.

If I was a club representative with no active rally members, then I would abstain from voting on rally issues. Do other club reps apply the same logic and principle? I doubt it.

We NEED adequate representation from this area but as long as the status quo on voting exists, we'll never get it. The Northern Race meetings predominantly consist of series of one sort or another and it works extremely well, particularly for the Clerk of The Course, the Race Director/Promoter and even the MSNZ Stewards as they generally only need deal with the convenor to get issues resolved.

Race entry numbers are generally better and the meetings more viable because of it, hence over 250 entries at a typical classic 2 day meeting, maybe 100 at a one dayer, yet only 68 at a Taupo Tier 1 meeting on the same day as a Hampton Downs Classic, a couple of years ago. But who gets the support, the promotion the kudos? Not the northern classics.

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Or why we refer to all 15 of you who live down there as "inbred country bumpkins" - which is a good reason why you shouldn't be controlling NZ Motorsport...

Which 15 are you talking about, the Crusaders or the Highlanders ?

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

Which 15 are you talking about, the Crusaders or the Highlanders ?

Well definitely not the bloomin' Blues!

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by promax

well since i'm meant to be part of tmc or inky's long lost son.. it can't be me

So what is your link to MRX or the Mitchell family then? Because there is one! Or you are Paparazzi?

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Jerico

So what is your link to MRX or the Mitchell family then? Because there is one! Or you are Paparazzi?

Wrong tree, mate

[promax]

Originally Posted by Jerico

So what is your link to MRX or the Mitchell family then? Because there is one! Or you are Paparazzi?

of course there is a link

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by promax

of course there is a link

Yip.

[promax]

under favorites in explorer

you click it and it takes you to mrx's site lol

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by promax

under favorites in explorer

you click it and it takes you to mrx's site lol

Sometimes I think you are the missing link...

Just kidding

[promax]

been called worst

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by socram

Being the organiser of a group that has had 100+ active racing members for several years (ERC Series - that is Arrow Wheels as the faster group, AES sponsor the slower group), as Roger points out we have zero representation, as all drivers have to be members of an MSNZ Club anyway. There is no point in going down the route of an incorporated society just so that we can get affiliated to MSNZ to pay them a heap of extra cash and get just one wasted vote in return.

One vote to the BMW car club with about 120 active circuit racers, Alfa with about 30, MG (Auckland) with about 25 and so on, plus the Formula Juniors 20? Historic Formua Fords 20? Historics 20? F5000's 30? Super Historics 10? Muscle Cars (Central, Northern, Historic etc) guessing, 80+? There are also a fair few Auckland Car Club members racing classics too. Get the drift? This is just the Northern part of the North Island.

It is NOT democratic and as long as it is one vote per club on every issue, whether they have 100 racers or rally members, or nil, is hopelessly unfair. Between TACCOC, HRC and the other named marque clubs, it is still a minimal number of votes for several hundred racers.

If I was a club representative with no active rally members, then I would abstain from voting on rally issues. Do other club reps apply the same logic and principle? I doubt it.

We NEED adequate representation from this area but as long as the status quo on voting exists, we'll never get it. The Northern Race meetings predominantly consist of series of one sort or another and it works extremely well, particularly for the Clerk of The Course, the Race Director/Promoter and even the MSNZ Stewards as they generally only need deal with the convenor to get issues resolved.

Race entry numbers are generally better and the meetings more viable because of it, hence over 250 entries at a typical classic 2 day meeting, maybe 100 at a one dayer, yet only 68 at a Taupo Tier 1 meeting on the same day as a Hampton Downs Classic, a couple of years ago. But who gets the support, the promotion the kudos? Not the northern classics.

An excellent post and a good summation of another fundamental problem with the MSNZ structure. This lack of representation has been festering for a few years and the MSNZ Executive have been made aware of it but for some reason won't address it. The historic and classic group is one of the most significant components of NZ motor sport in terms of competitor numbers but they are just about forgotten by MSNZ - I wonder if this is because there hasn't been a genuine historic and classic member of the MSNZ Executive for over ten years?

[mountainstar]

The more I hear, the more of a mess it sounds and I have yet to hear anyone directly state they are completely happy with the current situation.

[KRDG]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The more I hear, the more of a mess it sounds and I have yet to hear anyone directly state they are completely happy with the current situation.

I am completely unhappy with the present situation

[socram]

Ironically, as long as promoters invite those 'non-conforming series' and they turn up in sufficient numbers to make the meetings viable, (which they do) then nothing much changes and I for one, am not too concerned if our series doesn't conform to the letter of T & C rules!

We can't vote on the changes and we spent many, many hours, putting forward workable proposals (after democratically polling ALL our members), that would have brought at least three if not four series straight into full conformity, so why should we conform, if a small committee rejected them?

Purists can build cars to Appendix K which is there for them, but being a purist in NZ especially if racing a car where spares and trims are not plentiful, is a luxury than many cannot afford, so pragmatism has to rule, or racing will revert to a sport for the rich, fully controlled by MSNZ, with tiny grids of common cars -oh, wait a minute, doesn't that sound rather like tier 1?

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by socram

Ironically, as long as promoters invite those 'non-conforming series' and they turn up in sufficient numbers to make the meetings viable, (which they do) then nothing much changes and I for one, am not too concerned if our series doesn't conform to the letter of T & C rules!

We can't vote on the changes and we spent many, many hours, putting forward workable proposals (after democratically polling ALL our members), that would have brought at least three if not four series straight into full conformity, so why should we conform, if a small committee rejected them?

Purists can build cars to Appendix K which is there for them, but being a purist in NZ especially if racing a car where spares and trims are not plentiful, is a luxury than many cannot afford, so pragmatism has to rule, or racing will revert to a sport for the rich, fully controlled by MSNZ, with tiny grids of common cars -oh, wait a minute, doesn't that sound rather like tier 1?

Ha, beautifully put!

[Racer Mike]

I have been in this sport for over 30 years, Raced, Rallied and have never seen anything like the goings on until now. I know a lot of people and we have had enough of these people that are wrecking something that I enjoy doing. I just want to race and have a good time, a simple business transaction. What I am about to say is 90% true because in this sport there is always an element of bull**** added to everything said or done.

We as a sport are in the crap right now thanks to incompetent people who have no idea of a modern day business model.

We have a split in the two V8 rank, a now a split in Rallying and major goings on between the sport and another motorsport discipline right now.

Our president addressed the Taupo CC in the last week or so and told them that if they associated themselves with V8ST they wouldn’t be around and stated that V8ST would be gone by the end of the year? Funny how a number of circuts don’t have business deals with MSC but are dealing with V8ST.
He made further statements at a V8 Supercar meeting late last year to V8 Supercar officials claiming it wouldn’t happen and suppliers hadn’t been paid. Who bring the sport into disrepute here?

Its great to see the new Rally Xtreme class competing for the first time in a number of years. These guys couldn’t get what they wanted from the sport so they did it themselves, they wanted simple one day events that cut costs, simple rules that saved money, less time away and to have FUN. The only downfall here is that in the coming weeks when the NZRC shows on TV one, the extreme coverage will be on TV3 at almost the same time. How clever is that for our competitors and the sport.
The sports GM was overheard at Rally Wairarapa making very silly and incorrect statements about V8ST. Other MSNZ high powered officials are making new rules to the detriment of V8ST. This 2 lap warmup rule is rubbish and maybe the sport should inform spectators vs spectaors blaming V8ST. Let them race cause at the moment MSNZ V8's have nothing to offer.
Our VP decided to have a squirt on the side of the road at Rally Wairarapa in everyones view, then walked around Rally HQ with bare feet and his guts hanging out. A great look.
We have people charged with running our sport sending inappropriate emails to clubs and individuals, making ridiculous executive decisions by people who have no experience in the areas concerned and who have no experience in running a business and retaining customers.
We have people charged with promoting the so called championship series owning coffee carts, pace cars and manipultaing sponsorship deals. Furthermore why should I have to pay for a series that has 50-60 cars and looks like a cup of cold sick on TV when we are competing with 250 cars.
This Hamilton saga of Geoff Short and someone else close to the new NZV8 being caught taking photos and measurements of the Supercheap cars could be the lowest so far, who told him to do this? MSC or MSNZ or are they the same?
Somehow the photos got to MSNZ and the Emery car was ordered not to run until rectified, fair enough. Can u imagine MSNZ doing this to the BNT V8’s. Almost like not meeting the championship criteria for minimum amount of cars to be eldigeable for a NZ championship or like doing a U turn on a super license to let anyone race in the class to save their butt.
I understand MSNZ the company who majority owns MSC didn’t know about the fresh new look of changing the motorsport company to motorsport promotions. Who is running who here?
Does the Toyota NZ boss know what his employee John Foulke has got himself into by joing MPL? Hells bells, MSNZ have made it clear there is no room for Toyota, Suzuki, Utes, Productions cars or anything unless you have a NZV8. Purchasing the IP for this car and class is the last straw, the people charged with running our sport have spoken. We don’t give a crap about you but please keep paying your license fee and clubs please keep paying your associated fees and permits.
These fees this year will be used to pay legal costs to fight V8ST and perhaps we may be in for an extra levy.

All of this is unavoidable and unnecessary and in the coming weeks our clubs need to vote accordingly on remits sent by their members or we will not have a sport soon.

God help us.

[BackSeat Driver]

Originally Posted by Racer Mike

This Hamilton saga of Geoff Short and someone else close to the new NZV8 being caught taking photos and measurements of the Supercheap cars could be the lowest so far, who told him to do this? MSC or MSNZ or are they the same?
Somehow the photos got to MSNZ and the Emery car was ordered not to run until rectified, fair enough.

Firstly Racer Mike, welcome and thanks for making your first post a really decent one

Secondly can you elaborate what needed rectification on the Emery car? I have a bit to do with this team and it is news to me!

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Racer Mike

We have a split in the two V8 rank, a now a split in Rallying and major goings on between the sport and another motorsport discipline right now.

Well that was a fair bit of typing. Can you clarify this for me please?

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Racer Mike

I have been in this sport for over 30 years, Raced, Rallied and have never seen anything like the goings on until now. I know a lot of people and we have had enough of these people that are wrecking something that I enjoy doing. I just want to race and have a good time, a simple business transaction. What I am about to say is 90% true because in this sport there is always an element of bull**** added to everything said or done.

We as a sport are in the crap right now thanks to incompetent people who have no idea of a modern day business model.

We have a split in the two V8 rank, a now a split in Rallying and major goings on between the sport and another motorsport discipline right now.

Our president addressed the Taupo CC in the last week or so and told them that if they associated themselves with V8ST they wouldn’t be around and stated that V8ST would be gone by the end of the year? Funny how a number of circuts don’t have business deals with MSC but are dealing with V8ST.
He made further statements at a V8 Supercar meeting late last year to V8 Supercar officials claiming it wouldn’t happen and suppliers hadn’t been paid. Who bring the sport into disrepute here?

Its great to see the new Rally Xtreme class competing for the first time in a number of years. These guys couldn’t get what they wanted from the sport so they did it themselves, they wanted simple one day events that cut costs, simple rules that saved money, less time away and to have FUN. The only downfall here is that in the coming weeks when the NZRC shows on TV one, the extreme coverage will be on TV3 at almost the same time. How clever is that for our competitors and the sport.
The sports GM was overheard at Rally Wairarapa making very silly and incorrect statements about V8ST. Other MSNZ high powered officials are making new rules to the detriment of V8ST. This 2 lap warmup rule is rubbish and maybe the sport should inform spectators vs spectaors blaming V8ST. Let them race cause at the moment MSNZ V8's have nothing to offer.
Our VP decided to have a squirt on the side of the road at Rally Wairarapa in everyones view, then walked around Rally HQ with bare feet and his guts hanging out. A great look.
We have people charged with running our sport sending inappropriate emails to clubs and individuals, making ridiculous executive decisions by people who have no experience in the areas concerned and who have no experience in running a business and retaining customers.
We have people charged with promoting the so called championship series owning coffee carts, pace cars and manipultaing sponsorship deals. Furthermore why should I have to pay for a series that has 50-60 cars and looks like a cup of cold sick on TV when we are competing with 250 cars.
This Hamilton saga of Geoff Short and someone else close to the new NZV8 being caught taking photos and measurements of the Supercheap cars could be the lowest so far, who told him to do this? MSC or MSNZ or are they the same?
Somehow the photos got to MSNZ and the Emery car was ordered not to run until rectified, fair enough. Can u imagine MSNZ doing this to the BNT V8’s. Almost like not meeting the championship criteria for minimum amount of cars to be eldigeable for a NZ championship or like doing a U turn on a super license to let anyone race in the class to save their butt.
I understand MSNZ the company who majority owns MSC didn’t know about the fresh new look of changing the motorsport company to motorsport promotions. Who is running who here?
Does the Toyota NZ boss know what his employee John Foulke has got himself into by joing MPL? Hells bells, MSNZ have made it clear there is no room for Toyota, Suzuki, Utes, Productions cars or anything unless you have a NZV8. Purchasing the IP for this car and class is the last straw, the people charged with running our sport have spoken. We don’t give a crap about you but please keep paying your license fee and clubs please keep paying your associated fees and permits.
These fees this year will be used to pay legal costs to fight V8ST and perhaps we may be in for an extra levy.

All of this is unavoidable and unnecessary and in the coming weeks our clubs need to vote accordingly on remits sent by their members or we will not have a sport soon.

God help us.

Mate, this just can't go on. Those megalomaniac despots at MNZ and TMC or whatver it is called now have to go. I think someone should take them to the FIA and apply to have MNZ de-registered as the governing body, they have behaved in a totaly unprofessional manner and have not only caused major dissatisfaction amongst competitors but have also brought the sport into disrepute through their actions.

Viva la revolution!!

[RogerH]

We have a split in the two V8 rank, a now a split in Rallying and major goings on between the sport and another motorsport discipline right now.

Well that was a fair bit of typing. Can you clarify this for me please?

I think the reference to the major goings on between the sport (MSNZ) and another motorsport discipline could be a reference to the split going on in drag racing which has MSNZ's hand in the middle of it - who is right or wrong I don't know but it appears another part of the sport in some sort of turmoil.

[on_to_it]

Thanks RogerH. It's really all a bit of a mess isn't it.

[Racer Mike]

Originally Posted by BackSeat Driver

Firstly Racer Mike, welcome and thanks for making your first post a really decent one

Secondly can you elaborate what needed rectification on the Emery car? I have a bit to do with this team and it is news to me!

I cant say for sure but the cage had some sort of damage from the Ch Ch round and that photo was taken and sent to msnz for them to action. I understand the team was told by msnz the car could not continue until something was rectified with the cage. Thats as much as I know. I am unsure but from what I hear the team wasnt notified about this until the last minute by MSNZ to try and limit the time to fix it. Potentially another example of intervening in the sport to suit themselves, not the sport!