Jenson v Lewis what is the final verdict - Page 3

W.A Trichlorostyrene · 29 Nov 2012, 16:24 (Ref:3173132)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Irrelevant little thing here; I was looking through Autocourse 2011 this morning and the points table caught my eye. Hamilton scored 227 points. This season just gone, in which he has been vastly superior? 190 points! It would seem you can't read too much into points totals. I must admit that was a shock to me, I am still dumbfounded! And there was one less race in 2011.

Not so surprising when you think of it, there was so many teams and drivers fighting for big points this year. 8 different teams had at least one legit shot at a win, which is probably more than any other season since 1982.

2011 was so much more straightforward, only 3 teams challenging for wins, and one of them(Ferrari) had only one driver able to do so.

Mr V · 29 Nov 2012, 16:58 (Ref:3173142)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

At least JB probably didn't have this to put up with.

"I have never wanted to make a big deal about it, but it would have been nice to just once had the new parts on my car, particularly after we lost the chance of winning the championship."

"Every time this season, when Hamilton and I are in the third part of qualifying, I had to do it with more fuel. If you take into account the quantities of fuel, I would have had pole position several times."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...t-McLaren.html

hmmm.

And he had a point too.

VXDave · 29 Nov 2012, 19:35 (Ref:3173188)

Lewis needs to grow up with some of his off-track gobbiness, but there are few drivers as determined and entertaining to watch. I feel bad for him as he suffered breakdowns twice whilst leading and then the incident at the last race with Hulkenberg... could have possibly been another 3 wins on the cards and a lot closer in the championship!?

If's, but's and maybe's aside, I still prefer his style to Jenson's; less mature, no doubt, but more entertaining? Definitely.

Mr V · 29 Nov 2012, 19:58 (Ref:3173196)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VXDave

If's, but's and maybe's aside, I still prefer his style to Jenson's; less mature, no doubt, but more entertaining? Definitely.

Different styles, but both drivers have proved that they can win a title.

Knowlesy · 29 Nov 2012, 22:56 (Ref:3173265)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

And he had a point too.

Not really.

Why would they give favourable strategy to Heikki when he was constantly slower than Hamilton in races? His failure to make any impact on the 2008 Italian GP, despite all major rivals starting way back on the grid relative to him, was a huge embarrassment. He should have gone into hiding immediately.

Behave the pair of you.

stripedcat · 30 Nov 2012, 08:32 (Ref:3173416)

Overall, Lewis is the more complete driver. I think the only real advantage Jenson has is for when a race goes for wet to dry - then he seems to excel and perhaps have some thing the other drivers on the grid, just don't have!

davyboy · 30 Nov 2012, 08:50 (Ref:3173421)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stripedcat

Overall, Lewis is the more complete driver. I think the only real advantage Jenson has is for when a race goes for wet to dry - then he seems to excel and perhaps have some thing the other drivers on the grid, just don't have!

I'm not so sure. I think the pair of them have flaws... Lewis is faster than Jenson but [for whatever the reason] has trouble getting cars to the finish and as we know, to finish first, you must first finish. Jenson is slower than Lewis so has to rely on Lewis [and sometimes others] binning it in order to finish ahead of him. Many in the know will tell you that it's easier to make a fast driver reliable than to make a reliable driver fast.

Which brings us onto the real issue here which is why McLaren failed to bring more out of Lewis. I'm not sure we can put it all down to Lewis' temperament. He was very young when he entered F1 and I'm not sure that McLaren is a good place for a young driver to cut his teeth. It needs a Peter Sauber or Eddie Jordan type character to nurture them and calm down the wildness. McLaren, and particularly Ron Dennis, have the warmth and compassion of an ice-box when it comes to this kind of thing. Williams seem to have a similar culture and I can see the same kind of thing going on with Maldonado... a clearly incredible talent being squandered in un-tempered wildness week in week out.

Andrew2001 · 30 Nov 2012, 18:47 (Ref:3173652)

I whole heartedly agree with the original post on this. It was alot closer than the qualifying and lap times would suggest.
I think Lewis proved to be quite erratic under pressure, and certainly 'too aggressive' compared to Jenson's much cleaner style.
I do think though, that Lewis is more capable of getting more out of a car that isn't quite right whereas Jenson is a bit more exposed and not as quick. When the car is too his liking, well he is the quickest out there.

Jenson WDC 2013.

Andrew2001 · 30 Nov 2012, 18:54 (Ref:3173654)

Yeh speaking of reliability, yes completely agreed about his robbed wins this year. Frankly, it should have been a 3 way battle at Brasil. But these things happen, anyone want to spare a thought for Kimi? How many times did that McLaren break in '05, when he was way faster than the rest. They lost the championship by 2 points to Alonso...and '03 he had lots of bad luck too...In '07 he had some good luck but sadly for McLaren fans (me) he won in the wrong car!
Reliability really costed McLaren in the '99-'05 period, and certainly costed them this year. They had a great run of consistancy in '07-'08. Sadly, too many titles have been lost exclusively on the reliability of the car as a whole. The '99 title was nearly lost because of this although Mika did make a couple of massive mistakes in the lead....

willb · 2 Dec 2012, 15:18 (Ref:3174200)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew2001

Yeh speaking of reliability, yes completely agreed about his robbed wins this year. Frankly, it should have been a 3 way battle at Brasil.
...

Vettel, Alonso, and Hamilton all had problems with reliability and/or people taking them out, though Hamilton had a bit more.

Marbot · 2 Dec 2012, 16:22 (Ref:3174221)

Quote:

Originally Posted by willb

Vettel, Alonso, and Hamilton all had problems with reliability and/or people taking them out, though Hamilton had a bit more.

Hamilton finished around 90 points behind Vettel and Alonso. This doesn't account for "a bit more".

Compared to Button this season... Yeah, he should have scored higher. But over the three seasons, there's not much in it.

**Born Racer** · 2 Dec 2012, 21:14 (Ref:3174298)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWRv12

6. Jenson has the charisma and class of a champion. LH not so much lately

I didn't realise champions necessarily had or had to have charisma and class.

Hamilton wins it easily for me, but I know many will point at the stats, but I've seen enough. Hamilton might just eke it, but for me Hamilton's much more mightily consistently quick.

garcon · 3 Dec 2012, 09:40 (Ref:3174534)

If only it was all simply about being the fastest over a few laps...

**Born Racer** · 3 Dec 2012, 11:34 (Ref:3174580)

I know garcon, but ultimately Lewis is the guy I would trust my potentially championship-winning car to. There's no doubt that Jenson is an excellent driver too and they have made a great pairing. I definitely see 2011 as a blip for Lewis that doesn't "distort" the results of the comparison (i.e. they are what they are), but do not reflect the ultimate potential and particularly reality of their 2012 driving vis-a-vis each other.

Maybe I'll be wrong about Lewis, but Lewis drove just as fine a season as Fernando this year, possibly better (one fewer error - no Suzuka).

Knowlesy · 3 Dec 2012, 12:09 (Ref:3174592)

Indeed.

But Crashilton, tyre wear, car breaker, wibble etc...

garcon · 3 Dec 2012, 12:12 (Ref:3174597)

If I had a car that could win me a WDC I'd give it Jenson. If I had a car that might get me the glory of winning the odd race I'd give it Hamilton.

**Born Racer** · 3 Dec 2012, 12:22 (Ref:3174599)

But what about Jenson's massive and sudden drop-offs in performance at some circuits and dodgy qually?

garcon · 3 Dec 2012, 12:25 (Ref:3174600)

I would expect him to improve on that. Right now, I'd still see him as the better bet for consistency over the full season.

**Born Racer** · 3 Dec 2012, 12:26 (Ref:3174601)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

But what about Jenson's massive and sudden drop-offs in performance at some circuits and dodgy qually?

Quote:

talking of quali performances, they shouldn't be used as a comparison in their own right in my view (the old adage "you don't win any points on Saturday"), but they have been influential. If Button's Saturday performances hadn't been so utterly woeful all season he could have mounted a title challenge. Week after week his race was fatally compromised by a poor grid slot.

Garcon, you mentioned his races being fatally compromised; doesn't this make it extremely difficult for him to win the championship?

And as for win or bust, what win or bust this year?

garcon · 3 Dec 2012, 13:32 (Ref:3174617)

I would far rather bet on fixing Button's poor qually form this season than turning Hamilton's raw speed into reliable and consistent championship winning points.

**Born Racer** · 3 Dec 2012, 14:44 (Ref:3174634)

Furry muff. Agree to disagree and all that. I just think Hamilton had tempered that recklessness in 2012.

wnut · 3 Dec 2012, 21:46 (Ref:3174746)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

But what about Jenson's massive and sudden drop-offs in performance at some circuits and dodgy qually?

McLaren admitted it was their fault that Button's car was so poor in the first half of the season! They never gave a reason, but they admitted it was their fault. Which is a bit unusual!

Knowlesy · 3 Dec 2012, 23:24 (Ref:3174796)

It is called taking the heat off your driver.

McLaren even did it last year when Hamilton was in his rut.

wnut · 4 Dec 2012, 00:51 (Ref:3174816)

You may be right Knowlesy, bit of a worry when you compare the relative qualifying performance of the 2.

http://www.pitpass.com/src/seasons/2.../supergrid.php

But then we knew that!

deeks6 · 5 Dec 2012, 11:24 (Ref:3175327)

If I created the perfect car (and the best), I'd take Button any day - better looking, better talker, better team man, smarter, better race craft, kinder to cars and tyres, better in wet or changing conditions, more likeable, doesnt like hip-hop music etc. Will win WDC in clearly best car

If I wanted someone to stick it on pole every now and again, get some negative publicity, moan a lot, have a stupid looking beard, wear out the tyres, have the occaisional crash, even win a couple and date cheap looking models I'd take the Hamateur.

Lets face it, Jenson came into Hamateur's team, beat him and made it his own. Goodbye Lewis, hope you enjoy getting done by Rosberg too. NASCAR 2014?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Is Jenson a better driver than Lewis?	Paulaweybridge	Formula One	147	19 Jun 2011 12:52
800 or 990, what's your verdict?	Gerben24	Bike Racing	45	11 Mar 2008 09:13
Looks like FIA have given their verdict:	Glen	Formula One	33	18 Sep 2003 13:35
Your verdict	Crash Test	Australasian Touring Cars.	11	6 May 2001 10:23