[LM24] The changes to Le Mans

[Aysedasi]

And yet the race between Peugeot and Toyota in '92 was worth going for. Even though it rained!

[Aysedasi]

I see no-one has voted for the loss of the traditional Le Mans start. Not surprising, bearing in mind the other choices, but I'd be interested to hear what those who went to Le Mans pre-'70 think about that?

[paulzinho]

The switch from Group C didn't just ruin Le Mans it ruined Sportscar racing in general and many smaller teams too.

[Aysedasi]

I'm not so convinced of that one, Paul. I certainly mourn the loss of Group C, and what the unnecessary introduction of the 3.5 litre category did to sportscar racing, but there have been some positive elements to come out of that. Two years of the Peugeots and Toyotas were too good to miss (as I've said before), and after their demise we saw the return of what some might term real (or "real-er") sports cars to Le Mans.

It's not so much what the end of Group C brought about that concerned me, it was the cynical way in which the deed was done. I'm sure we'd all love to be still watching Silk Cut Jags and Sauber Mercedes at Le Mans, but the times have moved on. All I want now is for someone to really take it to the Audi's. What a shame Toyota didn't come back in 2000 - it could have been a classic battle.

[racer69]

I'm a bit with both Paulzinho & Aysedasi, the loss of Group C hurt Sporscars but times have moved a bit. I'd like to see maybe current GT Prototype rules, with the LMP 675 changed to say GT-P 675. I am just not a fan of open top sportscars.

On the Le Mans, i reckon it could be done safely, but the only problem i see is that it would probablt take longer nowadays to strap yourself in, which would mean a while between the gun and the cars leaving. I like the rolling start, but the Ford Chicanes make it hard to get the field to bunch up and go side by side, giving the leaders an advantage, but then again it is a 24 hour race.

[paulzinho]

Although sportscars have improved in recent years the group C cars were the best cars for me. However the initial impact was a bit of a disaster surely Aysedasi, despite the Peugeots...

[Aysedasi]

Oh yes Paul, that's right. If it hadn't been for Peugeot (their playing field, of course) and Toyota, there would have been nothing much left at Le Mans (except a field of s****y little spyders!). What was just as concerning though was that other manufacturers did produce cars for the formula, and great looking cars at that - I am thinking mainly of Jaguar, Mercedes and Nissan. These cars never got to race at Le Mans though and having forced the creation of the formula and the dumping of Group C, the FISA then dropped it just as quickly by failing to properly promote the races. The circuits lost interest as they weren't prepared to invest in an expensive series for which they would get paltry grids (and crowds, probably), so the formula died a premature death. All very sad.

[Dr. Austin]

I dispise all of the changes to LeMans. The safety argument is always a weak one. If you want safety, just make it safer. Don't ruin the racing by making it lamer.

An example of this would be the LeMans start. Drivers would be already strapped in and the co-driver would run across the track and flip the outside electrical cutoff switch on. Of course the drivers starting would have to be careful of traffic pulling out, but this is racing. This way we could still have the LeMans start, but now it is much safer. The drivers are belted in and safe, and the spectacle is assured.

The Dunlop chicane has no reason whatsoever for being there. If the intent was to slow the cars coming into Dunlop, too late, the chicane is after the curve. All the chicane does is spoil the spectacle of the cars popping up over the crest of the hill under the Dunlop bridge.

Since speeds were not only too stupidly fast on Mulsanne, but also stupidly long, a nice set of curves like, say, the Porsche curves would break the straight up. Anything is better than a stupid, mindless chicane. Instead, why not have a series of smooth, challenging high speed sweeping corners that would be good to drive and watch?

The biggest danger of Mulsanne is getting a punture, having the extreme speed hold the tire up through centrifical force, and then arriving at the kink at 250mph with a flat tire and not knowing about it. So put the curves just before the kink, but far enough back so they can still get a good run at it and maybe go through at 220 or so.

As far as the humps, a little shaving is ok, just leave enough so that the landmark is still there. The only answer here is to find a way to keep the cars on the ground (DOH!! ground effects) or have a bunch of completely flat tracks. The old Nurburgring had massive elevation changes, and Porsche had two (more streamlined) 908/2 spyders fly in 1969, not a great debut for the car. And remember the CanAm 917's flipping at Road Atlanta? Remember the Porsche and BMW flipping there?

The problem is flat bottomed cars going fast enough to generate that kind of lift. When a car comes over a hump, the front end wants to keep going up (helped if downforce is compromised by disturbed air), and it does, if only a little. Once enough air gets under ther nose, the car essentially becomes a flat bottomed airfoil, and like an airliner picking it's nose wheel up off the ground, the car rotates back and the lift exceeds the vehicle weight. Notice none of the ground effects cars ever did that. So i think a return to limited tunnels and slight shaving is the best answer. This isn't hot wheels with a jump ramp!!!

White House? Move the house!!! Or remove the guard rails and just let the cars tear it down! Or put up a proper soft barrier and live with it. There are more terrfying corners in the world, but with proper run off, the risk is acceptable. The only thing that made White House so scary is there was no run off. Well, maybe the dining room......

More run off is always a better answer than emasculating the cars or removing a challenging corner. The spectacle of watching cars blast through the Indianapolis kink was not spoiled by the new run off area and gravel traps.

LeMans is known for it's famous landmarks like Mulsanne and Indianapolis, the Dunlop bridge, the Hunadiers (spelled wrong, I know) and the Mulsanne hump. If you remove the landmarks and traditions, it becomes just another race. There are better ways of making LeMans safer than ruining it's unique character.

[rdjones]

I do not care what everyone says about the changes to Le Mans. It is still a great race, it was a great event in 1923 ( no I can not remember that one), it is still a great race in 2001. The reason it is still a great race is becuse it has changed and evolved and every couple of years in reinvents inself, into something even better, by this I mean layout the track, changes in classes and cars. I can not wait for my fisrt trip the the race next year, as it in my belive is the biggest and best motor race in the world and will stay like it for a very long time to come. Long live the Le Mans 24 hour Sportscar Race.

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by rdjones
I do not care what everyone says about the changes to Le Mans. It is still a great race, it was a great event in 1923 ( no I can not remember that one), it is still a great race in 2001. The reason it is still a great race is becuse it has changed and evolved and every couple of years in reinvents inself, into something even better, by this I mean layout the track, changes in classes and cars. I can not wait for my fisrt trip the the race next year, as it in my belive is the biggest and best motor race in the world and will stay like it for a very long time to come. Long live the Le Mans 24 hour Sportscar Race.

I agree, rd, but I also agree with the good Dr. (I must be unwell, I keep agreeing with everyone!!). The truth is that it is the fans who go who make Le Mans what it is, who create the atmosphere which makes the place so special. The thousands of Brits who pour over every June know exactly how good the experience is. You should start seriously looking forward to your trip by the end of January, rd. Afterwards, you may have stopped smiling by December!