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1 May 2020, 23:23 (Ref:3974032) | #51 | ||
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
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Money has killed TCM.
Cars are more like silhouettes with modern gear in it. |
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2 May 2020, 01:05 (Ref:3974040) | #52 | ||
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Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car. |
2 May 2020, 02:44 (Ref:3974047) | #53 | ||
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." |
2 May 2020, 06:40 (Ref:3974058) | #54 | |
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,215
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Motorsport has always been that way and it was the wealthy who actually started motor sport and kept it going in the amateur era, without them it would have gone nowhere.
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3 May 2020, 00:34 (Ref:3974197) | #55 | ||
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Quote:
The costs might have blown out, but the fields are still generally pretty good |
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3 May 2020, 12:18 (Ref:3974241) | #56 | ||
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Posts: 1,644
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Yep, originally it was a Group N+, but the cars were always log booked as Sports Sedans. That went out the window somewhere around the time Jim Richards raced the Javelin in a spec that not only didn't race, but never existed.
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Supercars isn't the sport. The sport is motor racing. |
3 May 2020, 13:36 (Ref:3974254) | #57 | ||
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Posts: 516
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Quote:
The original justification for TCM (apart from allowing advertising) was supposedly that GpN was too expensive because the cars had to be historically accurate and it would be cheaper to source parts off the shelf. Allowing an AMC vehicle to run a Dodge Nascar motor because there was no economical way to built up an AMC these days was in retrospect true to that original concept of modern retro looking cars using crate parts. Far from being offended by the cost of the new Tru-Blu, I just find it ironic that it cost more than a front-running modern touring car. Obviously being a one-off build that had to be a front runner took a lot of time and money. People have spent much more on historic touring car vehicles I know but they at least have historical provenance. This is a category that is allowing Capris to run Chevs in order to keep the costs down, so cars like the new Tru-Blu send the opposite message to those hoping to get in and compete. But good luck to them, I have no dog in the fight. |
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home of saturday night turtle racing "ciudad de juarez raceway" |
5 May 2020, 01:55 (Ref:3974532) | #58 | |||
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He is a very very smart and well off fellow. There's no way DJR would have survived to be revived by Mr Penske if not for the personal financial support of Mr Ryan Story.
Please please please go listen to V8 Sleuth's podcast - the Ryan Story and Rusty's Garage for the Roland Dane episodes. Both amazing characters of our sport Quote:
But the Tubbed Torana and XD, and I guess the Commodore as well have taken it too far. It was a good idea to have modern shapes to appeal to more of an audience the cost is out of control. |
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5 May 2020, 12:59 (Ref:3974611) | #59 | |
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Costs out of control, what do you think the costs should be? Do you think there is any way of containing cost for circuit racing in general because I don't. Been there and done that over many years of racing. I wish I could recoup the huge amount of money I spent but I enjoyed every minute of it.
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7 May 2020, 10:52 (Ref:3974895) | #60 | |
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The Circuit Excel series seems pretty effective at containing costs. The rules like requiring internally stock engines (can be skimmed if rebuild required), control coil-overs for everyone and cheap 195/50 R15 tyres seem to work very well.
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8 May 2020, 11:18 (Ref:3975075) | #61 | ||
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Quote:
So let's get back to it, reducing costs in SC, give me a hard figure that it should cost to race in the series because no matter what that figure is someone somewhere will have a different one. |
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9 May 2020, 01:12 (Ref:3975159) | #62 | |||
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Quote:
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"Your biggest auto race may one day become a Camaro playground", Chris Economaki, Bathurst 1979 |
9 May 2020, 02:15 (Ref:3975164) | #63 | |
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An admirable ambition but in no way does it contain costs and to do so is nigh impossible anyway. To say reduce costs is an open ended statement with no hard goal and no way to achieve it. There is one way though, the teams buy a kit of parts or a built car and run that as sold to them. Limit the number of team members and support equipment and you have the answer. I suspect that going that way would be met with a very firm NO! The rule book would be simple, one page with a do not modify this vehicle in any way written on it.
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9 May 2020, 02:35 (Ref:3975166) | #64 | |
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Larry Perkins feels that would make the race teams nothing more than "bolties" who just unbolt things and bolt things together, without any design, engineering or fabrication capability. Does that concern you?
Is the point of motor racing to be able to read the rulebook and design and engineer the best solution to the rulebook, or it is just to have a cost controlled spec series? IMO, spec designs definitely cause a kind of technical stagnation and prevent the natural evolution of designs that would otherwise happen over time. Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 9 May 2020 at 02:40. |
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9 May 2020, 07:17 (Ref:3975173) | #65 | |
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The problem is that the Supercars series has never been designed to operate in a time of austerity.
Since the teams became REC holders the whole industry has been built around big teams, big transporters, large television rights, massive corporate suites and governments subsidizing races. When the money from tv is not there the whole business case falls over. |
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home of saturday night turtle racing "ciudad de juarez raceway" |
9 May 2020, 08:35 (Ref:3975187) | #66 | ||
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Quote:
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9 May 2020, 10:34 (Ref:3975210) | #67 | |
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10 May 2020, 02:32 (Ref:3975336) | #68 | |
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Harry Firth could never be accused of spending an unnecessary dollar if he didn't have to.
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10 May 2020, 03:06 (Ref:3975340) | #69 | ||
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11 May 2020, 06:31 (Ref:3975462) | #70 | |
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AJ Foyt towed his own cars to Indianapolis from Texas behind a Ford Galaxie too but I bet they still had a truck carrying all the spares.
Trouble is that is all part of the Supercars image, massive B-doubles with sponsorship down the side criss-crossing the country. Many race competitors in various categories now use transporters so Supercars has to have the biggest and best to keep their status, I realise that. Unfortunately having the biggest and best also means you spend more than everyone else. |
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home of saturday night turtle racing "ciudad de juarez raceway" |
11 May 2020, 10:09 (Ref:3975486) | #71 | ||
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Open trailers don't fix a thing (although they are kinda cool). By time car, trailer & some gear loaded, it's not a light trailer. Then more gear in tow van - end result, fuel consumption not unlike the rigs they run now. Then you'd need two drivers rather than one as two trailers needed, then those vans and trailers wouldn't carry the gear (particularly allowing for pit stops) that is needed these days, so other vans or a truck would be needed.
Then factor in that teams already own (or lease) their B Doubles so trailers, vans, parts truck would all be additional costs, then of course there are the sponsor agreements including exposure benefits from the truck signage that would need to be revalued (down). All in all - yeah nah. |
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“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
11 May 2020, 10:23 (Ref:3975488) | #72 | |
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It’s always necessary to have a trailer that can carry all you need, which is why open trailers aren’t the solution. As you say they can’t carry everything and are harder to operate. You need one that can carry everything safely and effectively. I think the trailers they use now are fine. They do everything they need and we shouldn’t let them go. I do think it’s important not to lose the necessary things
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
12 May 2020, 05:20 (Ref:3975630) | #73 | |
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At the Shannon's Nationals, there were many national level competitors -- such as GT3 Cup -- using open trailers for their Porsches. Many drift and time attack competitors also use open trailers. Open trailers can't be that bad!
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12 May 2020, 06:05 (Ref:3975633) | #74 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 306
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As a club/State level competitor, I towed an open trailer. Gear goes in the racecar, and the back of the tow car. A ute, and now a wagon, was enough for me, but a van would cater for most needs.
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12 May 2020, 09:34 (Ref:3975667) | #75 | |
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I guess it's ok for lower series. It seems to be no more than necessary there. If you're only taking a car that's enough, but a van as you say can carry more
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
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