One for the older guys - Page 3

Crowestar · 20 Dec 2004, 09:10 (Ref:1183698)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

If you believed Holden, they didn't have anything to do with the Mobil Holden Dealer Team, since 1979. The way Brock and Holden presented it to the world was that Holden supplied HDT Special Vehicle's with cars for Brock to hot up, the profits from that being used by Brock to fund the Mobil Holden Dealer Team.

The now they quote that they have been in motorsport non stop since 1969.

cavvy · 20 Dec 2004, 10:08 (Ref:1183756)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowestar

The now they quote that they have been in motorsport non stop since 1969.

I saw Holden Dealer Team Monaros in the 68 London Sydney, all running the yet to be released 350s. Factory?

Henry · 20 Dec 2004, 22:12 (Ref:1184423)

Back in the days... Holden were subject to a decree from GM that there was to be absolutely no factory involvement in motor racing. The 1968 Dealer Team Monaros for the London-Sydney WERE factory cars, produced at the behest of David Mackay, who can thus claim the title of "father" of Holden's works team. They were subject to this decree throughout the remainder of the sixties and the seventies until they announced that they were pulling out... when they didn't "officially" participate anyway!

However, Holden have benefited in the public's eye by their perceived involvement (and regardless of what Holden said, HDT WAS the works team thru the 70's... I have read that their budget was paid for out of a senior executive's cheque book IIRC); 1969 does make a nice origin considering that their Bathurst victory that year is a much more noteworthy historic footnote than mere participation in a rally in which Ford Australia figured much more successfully...

cavvy · 20 Dec 2004, 23:10 (Ref:1184493)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

factory involvement in motor racing. The 1968 Dealer Team Monaros for the London-Sydney WERE factory cars, produced at the behest of David Mackay, who can thus claim the title of "father" of Holden's works team.

participation in a rally in which Ford Australia figured much more successfully...

The David MacKay (or is it McKay) HDT involvement is pre the Marathon.

Excuse my bias, but to me the difference in the Ford -Holden Marathon results were due to one H.Firth being on Fords payroll.

Henry · 20 Dec 2004, 23:16 (Ref:1184505)

You're right, McKay it is.

H certainly did a good job of preparing the Fords, and figured strongly in the running right up until late in the piece... can you imagine how Ford may have figured into the early 1970's had they not cast the Grey Fox aside?

Trev Campbell · 21 Dec 2004, 01:19 (Ref:1184559)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowestar

From what I've read since, The Brock/Holden Split began towards the end of 1986. Brock had been secretly testing the polariser for a couple of years before its release in a HDT car in 1986.

How is this possible, because Brock said theat the machine that could test the effectivness of the polariser had not been invented yet. Ha Ha Ha.

MHDT · 21 Dec 2004, 02:35 (Ref:1184577)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

How is this possible, because Brock said theat the machine that could test the effectivness of the polariser had not been invented yet. Ha Ha Ha.

I think you'll find that was a paraphase of what the CSIRO said.

Trev Campbell · 21 Dec 2004, 02:53 (Ref:1184588)

It's still funny whoever said it !!!!!!!

johnh875 · 21 Dec 2004, 03:13 (Ref:1184594)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

H certainly did a good job of preparing the Fords, and figured strongly in the running right up until late in the piece... can you imagine how Ford may have figured into the early 1970's had they not cast the Grey Fox aside?

Did they cast him aside or did Holden poach him?

Henry · 21 Dec 2004, 04:08 (Ref:1184603)

I thought he had been told he wasn't required any longer...

cavvy · 21 Dec 2004, 04:18 (Ref:1184605)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

I thought he had been told he wasn't required any longer...

Between the Ford departure & the Holden arrival he built the ARC winning Renault 16 TS - 3 of.

What a legend, onya Harry !!!

Henry · 21 Dec 2004, 04:35 (Ref:1184613)

I must admit that I had wondered whether much of the myth and legend of H Firth was perpetuated by.... H Firth... (forgive me as I'm really too young to remember the halcyon days of Firth's HDT), but he surely has been there, done that. A handy steerer, talent scout, car preparer, tactician, and ultimately a nightmare once he retired and headed the CAMS eligibility committee, his contributions to motorsport are truly hard to over-rate.

Crowestar · 23 Dec 2004, 07:00 (Ref:1186484)

David McKay's team was called the Holden Dealer Racing Team and it only lasted for 1968. Harry Firth was sacked by Ford in late 1968/69 because of the disaster of the 1968 Bathurst 500 and probably other things but I'd say that Bathurst capped it off. He then began the Holden Dealer Team in 1969 and well it gres from there.

Raglanparade · 23 Dec 2004, 07:25 (Ref:1186489)

harry firth is seen as a holden man. almost the father of holden motorsport

my uncles dad (mothers sisters husbands father) used to work for HDT, and as a result my uncle has Brocks 1973 torana.

Ian Tate is my uncles dad and he had a bit to do with HDT in the early days. He always looks at harry in a favorable light.

Henry · 23 Dec 2004, 22:47 (Ref:1187105)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonhill9884

Ian Tate... ...had a bit to do with HDT in the early days. He always looks at harry in a favorable light.

Slightly understated isn't it Jason? I would've thought Tatey was a massive part of the HDT in the early days!

Raglanparade · 23 Dec 2004, 23:36 (Ref:1187131)

I not really sure about much of his input into HDT, i knew he had a bit to do with it, but my uncle has never really told me much about his dad's input.

you can see tatey at most victorian historic meets. His son Paul owns Brocks Championship winning 1973 Torana, and has fully restored it.

I went in for a hot-lap with Johnny Harvey around the Calder Park Thunderdome in early 2001 (first shakedown run) and the thing really is a beast.

Since then Paul has put a much bigger engine in the front of it (he reckons about in extra 100hp - im not sure how historic the engine is now)

Earlier this year, Paul handed the keys over to Greg Murphy down at Phillip Island, and apparentally Murph got out of the X-U1 with a nice big grin on his face. My uncle (Paul) said he was fight off brown stains watching Murph getting the X-U1 very sideways at the top of lukey heights.

Tatey is now in a semi-retirement. He sold off his engine workshop in Hawthorn a couple of years ago, and Paul has since left the tate engines fold as well. I think he does still prepare engines in some form (Paul doesnt speak to much of him), but its only really for his friends in the historic classes.

Henry · 24 Dec 2004, 00:36 (Ref:1187155)

I noticed that he's had a fair input into a lot of the stories in AMC on the Good Old Days... I'd reckon that if you wanted to hear some rollicking yarns, ask him about the early 70's Torana programs... the Beast, the "XU-2"s, Brock...

Some absolute pearls in there I'd say...

Be some more in a beer with Harves too!

cavvy · 24 Dec 2004, 07:15 (Ref:1187264)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowestar

David McKay's team was called the Holden Dealer Racing Team and it only lasted for 1968. Harry Firth was sacked by Ford in late 1968/69 because of the disaster of the 1968 Bathurst 500 and probably other things but I'd say that Bathurst capped it off. He then began the Holden Dealer Team in 1969 and well it gres from there.

I'm not sure this the true story - HDT were certainly rallying pre 1968.
Harrys efforts with XT GT Falcons in the 68 London - Sydney was top notch.
I am confident he did not go directly from Ford to Holden, he built the team of Renault 16 TS's before he went to Holden.

Need someone with more knowledge than I.

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