Edmondson and Atherton getting cosy?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

It was a start.

It is all realative.

Krohn & White Lightning combine one car effert spent close to $1 million on a LeMans race alone.

Normal GT1 teams budget $7 - $10 million per year. LMP1 teams about the same.

Low 'budget' team ( wild guess here ) $3-$5 million per year. After having the car, transporter and race shop cost covered.

Where are you getting your figures from? From what I've heard and seen... they are false.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Where are you getting your figures from? From what I've heard and seen... they are false.

Risi Comp. The budget Ferrari was looking at for GT1 was $10 million per year to be competitive. Then Ferrari decided to stick with GT2 ( F430 ) customer cars.

Corvette racing was the $10 million per year range ( I have close ties with Corvette ) I would not be suprised that ProDrive just below that amount.

Risi ALMS GT2 budget approx $4 million / year.

What amount did you hear or see??

No team can race on a shoe string budget of a few $100,000 a year.

Heck even SCCA ( amature) T1 ( Touring 1) corvettes run $50,000 to $60,000 per year for 7-10 races, plus the cost of the car and voluntee pit crews. ($5,000 to $7,000 per race weekend) These figures I know very well.

Professional racing, even budget professional racing is far more

[Fogelhund]

Corvette racing was the $10 million per year range ( I have close ties with Corvette ) I would not be suprised that ProDrive just below that amount. -

cut that number in half (AMR), Barbours attempt required similar dollars I would also suggest that the factory Corvette isn't, the Normal GT1 budget, anymore than Audi's budget is the "Normal LMP1" budget.

Risi ALMS GT2 budget approx $4 million / year. <- two cars

[AU N EGL]

$2 million or $5 million is still a lot of money for anyone, priveteer or manufacture supported to run a professional sports car team. Plus the cost of the race cars themselvs.

Racing is not cheap. Manufactures just dont dole out the cash to any team, if at all. Sponsors and or 'partners' pay most of the expensise. The sponsors also want a good ROI too.

Event promotion ( races ) also takes lot of money. Spectator / gate attendance doesn't come close to covering the costs. TV advertsing revenue pays for most of the events. Event sponsors pay more of the costs for the event. Gate reciepts are only a small fraction of the event income ( sans NASCAR)

Yes we want events of X or Y distance and be true endurance races. We as spectators what good races with good gid numbers. Event promotors what income from the evnet.

Teams want exposure and podium finishes in the BIG races or winning the years championship to use for advertising.

Bit of a Catch 22 ??

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

$2 million or $5 million is still a lot of money for anyone, priveteer or manufacture supported to run a professional sports car team. Plus the cost of the race cars themselvs.

Racing is not cheap. Manufactures just dont dole out the cash to any team, if at all. Sponsors and or 'partners' pay most of the expensise. The sponsors also want a good ROI too.

Event promotion ( races ) also takes lot of money. Spectator / gate attendance doesn't come close to covering the costs. TV advertsing revenue pays for most of the events. Event sponsors pay more of the costs for the event. Gate reciepts are only a small fraction of the event income ( sans NASCAR)

Yes we want events of X or Y distance and be true endurance races. We as spectators what good races with good gid numbers. Event promotors what income from the evnet.

Teams want exposure and podium finishes in the BIG races or winning the years championship to use for advertising.

Bit of a Catch 22 ??

AUNEGL:
You are currently connected with racing, do you have any idea of what the cost difference would be between running sprint races: eighty mile qualifiers, GT and P cars separate, on Sat., and 100 or however far they can go on one tank on Sun.; verses running say five to six hundred mile race on Sun., with normal qualifying?

Both for the tracks and the teams.
Bob

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

AUNEGL:
You are currently connected with racing, do you have any idea of what the cost difference would be between running sprint races: eighty mile qualifiers, GT and P cars separate, on Sat., and 100 or however far they can go on one tank on Sun.; verses running say five to six hundred mile race on Sun., with normal qualifying?

Both for the tracks and the teams.
Bob

I can work out some numbers and put some good estimaitions together.

Sprint races are very very hard on equimpent as the car is run 110% for the whole race. vs endor racing the car needs to be saved a little to finish.

Personally I can a full weekend on a set of scrub race tires, about 2 1/2 hours of track time. But one 20-30 min race and a set of NEW TIRES are shot

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

AUNEGL:
You are currently connected with racing, do you have any idea of what the cost difference would be between running sprint races: eighty mile qualifiers, GT and P cars separate, on Sat., and 100 or however far they can go on one tank on Sun.; verses running say five to six hundred mile race on Sun., with normal qualifying?

Both for the tracks and the teams.
Bob

After a few emails and phone calls. Sprint races 30 to 50 mins in legth are very hard on equipment. Then looking at looking at the above of an 80 mile qual race on Sat and long race on sunday. Not to mention practice sessions, Would be very expesive for a team. Why?? two engines and drive train for two races. Engine and drive line changes Sat night for sundays race. Each engine is rebuild for each race.
Plus brake pads, rotors, and softer compound tires for the shorter yet harder racing.

a shorter qualifing with practice then a longer race in my estimation would be less expesive on teams then shorter sprint racing. Cost wise?? double the teams budgets for sprint racing vs endro.

Yes TV coverage would like shorter races, teams may not.

Longer endro racing also has lots of stratagy. The fastest does not always win. The team with strong reliable equipment with few pit stops and equipment brakage will out last the faster yet more fragile teams.

From my own personal experinces I have seen guys with cars that have far more HP then my car, do much lower lap times. But 20 or 30 min into a 45 minute session they are inthe pits or paddock working on a broken car, and I am still out on the track.

Plus I am not a great mechanic so relabiltyand less down time is more important then higher HP/ TQ

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

After a few emails and phone calls. Sprint races 30 to 50 mins in legth are very hard on equipment. Then looking at looking at the above of an 80 mile qual race on Sat and long race on sunday. Not to mention practice sessions, Would be very expesive for a team. Why?? two engines and drive train for two races. Engine and drive line changes Sat night for sundays race. Each engine is rebuild for each race.
Plus brake pads, rotors, and softer compound tires for the shorter yet harder racing.

a shorter qualifing with practice then a longer race in my estimation would be less expesive on teams then shorter sprint racing. Cost wise?? double the teams budgets for sprint racing vs endro.

Yes TV coverage would like shorter races, teams may not.

Longer endro racing also has lots of stratagy. The fastest does not always win. The team with strong reliable equipment with few pit stops and equipment brakage will out last the faster yet more fragile teams.

From my own personal experinces I have seen guys with cars that have far more HP then my car, do much lower lap times. But 20 or 30 min into a 45 minute session they are inthe pits or paddock working on a broken car, and I am still out on the track.

Plus I am not a great mechanic so relabiltyand less down time is more important then higher HP/ TQ

AHHHHH, unreliability, a missing ingredient in racing. It is sometimes, not always the fastest that won, or finished high, but it is definitley the best prepared.

Even in two hundred mile races, unless it was one of the not common race long battles, the most entertaining part of the races was the first ten to fifteen laps, when often the top of the mid-pack cars would push hard enough to keep a string of five to ten cars nose to tail, until either cars broke or they spread out as most knew they could run that hard all race long, but it was good while it lasted.
I remember one T-A at Donnybrooke where Rich Sloma, before he had the lime green AAGT Corvette, decided he was going to show Hansen and Tullius just how fast his car was, and put over a half a mile between him and number two car for the first laps, of course his car broke, but he had the announcer going whoo-eeee.

I am speaking from a fans point of view here, but I did like the sprint races, although I wished they had, had, two instead of one.
I was at Road America when they had one on
Sat. and one on Sun. and Road Atlanta also ran two races several times, only theirs were 50 rather than 80 mile sprintsl


For putting on a show to bring the max. number of fans, one cannot beat sprint races.
Most people get bored at long races where cars just drone around.
Sprints are short enough, especiallly with the fastest cars, one does not have time to get bored; of course then you will have those who did not really want to be there saying "Its over already, you came all this way for that?"

IMSA and the SCCA went the long race route whent they started the GT type racing; apparently that turned off a lot of people because both hit peaks with the mostly sprint race format, with a few long races mixed in.
Perhaps the current IMSA should look at what works, and try that again.
Bob

[AU N EGL]

Long endro races are hard to follow. Might be why ALMS and LM put the three colord running lights on the sides of the cars. So the fans could at least tell who was in the top three in each class.

The othe part of long races, is the tail gate parties the groups of fans have.

When there is a long race on the TV, I move the TV into the garage and work on the car for several hours while the race is on.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Long endro races are hard to follow. Might be why ALMS and LM put the three colord running lights on the sides of the cars.

The coloured light system doesn't operate at LM - Though it really should be done there and in the Le Mans Series

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

AHHHHH, unreliability, a missing ingredient in racing. It is sometimes, not always the fastest that won, or finished high, but it is definitley the best prepared.

Bob

Yes, all part of racing.