[WEC] Toyota Hypercar Discussion

[Adam43]

The old three car Toyota story.

[veeten]

Let's face facts... Porsche has multiples, Ferrari decided to have a "semi" independent car, and now Toyota wants one. Looks like we have arrived at the challenge phase of the series.

Don't be surprised if some of the other teams and manufacturers will be raising a clamor about their extra cars, like Lamborghini and Isotta Fraschini. If there's room for the major players to get them, then what about us... the other ones will say.

Hey, it's only fair...

[joeb]

This quote below from the S366 article is odd. Would the ACO really tell Toyota they can't have a 3rd car at Le Mans?

Although manufacturers such as Porsche and Cadillac have brought over cars from the IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship for the WEC showpiece, Leupen indicated that Toyota has been informed that a one-off entry for Le Mans would not be accepted.

“We understand that from this year onwards, you have to do the whole season with three cars, not only Le Mans and Spa,” said Leupen.

[Mike E]

I thought it was strange too considering there are extra works cars from Porsche, Lambo and Caddy this year.
Either way, the extra car must be just for Le Mans. It would be no help in the manufacturers championship and taking points off the works drivers in the drivers championship isn't ideal either. The #7 getting taken out of last year's race must have really stung.

[veeten]

Nope, it's for the whole '25 season, not just Le Mans.

[Mike E]

Sorry, I meant they would run it for the whole season just to get it into Le Mans. Any Toyota winning Le Mans is better than anyone else winning it. And a third full season entry would not be eligible for manufacturer points.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by tomcug

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ntry-for-2025/
Another "privateer" car potentially incoming. That's just me but I'd rather see 6th 963 in truly private hands than another fake private car.

If that's the case then Ferrari should drop theirs too. All that aside, I have 0 interest in watching a quasi-"spec" Porsche series.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by joeb

This quote below from the S366 article is odd. Would the ACO really tell Toyota they can't have a 3rd car at Le Mans?

Quite odd indeed isn't it? I can understand Cadillac and Lamborghini having a 2nd car as they only have a single full season entry, but how does Porsche Penske get an additional (third) LeMans only entry?

[Adam43]

Which is why Group C was so bad for many years.

The more the merrier.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Matador

Quite odd indeed isn't it? I can understand Cadillac and Lamborghini having a 2nd car as they only have a single full season entry, but how does Porsche Penske get an additional (third) LeMans only entry?

Is it only LM? Is that car from IMSA or is it going to run the WEC? Penske maybe has a workaround since they're not "Porsche" but if that's the case, something is amiss. Either Toyota didn't get the same memo or someone gets to skirt by the rules?

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by Matador

All that aside, I have 0 interest in watching a quasi-"spec" Porsche series.

I understand your point but I don't think there's a risk of that happening at least for now My point is that if Ferrari and Toyota want three (or more) full-season cars, then they should offer their cars to the privateers instead of adding another factory car and calling it a "privateer" entry.

Originally Posted by joeb

This quote below from the S366 article is odd. Would the ACO really tell Toyota they can't have a 3rd car at Le Mans?

This is strange indeed but maybe Caddy and Porsche are allowed extra factory entries for Le Mans because they bring over cars that race full-season in IMSA? And Toyota doesn't have such one. That's a very fishy explanation tbh but I don't see any better one. Or someone at Toyota simply mixed up what they heard from the ACO?

[Gerard C]

Leupen said: "We understand that from this year onwards, you have to do the whole season with three cars, not only Le Mans and Spa”. You have means everybody not only Toyota I suppose.

[Sodemo]

Yea in terms of the "BOP" I feel that Toyota is being punished for basically being the most experienced and most organised team. No one would think that the other teams would be able to compete on a level playing field in a fair competition. Its like Haas turning up in F1, only now are they starting to really be competitive, but its taken them several years of competing.

The BOP should be an equivalence of the "potential performance".

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The BOP should be an equivalence of the "potential performance".

That would be BOPP, not BOP

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Leupen said: "We understand that from this year onwards, you have to do the whole season with three cars, not only Le Mans and Spa”. You have means everybody not only Toyota I suppose.

But does "this year" mean 2024 or 2025? Because in 2024 Porsche will have 3 factory cars at Le Mans despite doing only 2 cars full season.

[Aysedasi]

2025, I assume.

[veeten]

It's '24. They were late on that as Ferrari added their 3rd car for this year. Porsche has not only Penske, but others like Jota and Proton.

Right now, Lamborghini and Isotta Fraschini are just starting and are willing to wait before adding a 2nd car. Others like BMW and Alpina are just fine, racing with what they have.

[Adam43]

This article is just an article, if you get what I mean. I think taking the details in it and running with it are perhaps taking it too far.

Never say never, but it’s unlikely Toyota will run a third car. I suppose this may be the first shot at getting it out there to start convincing Japan.

[flatlandsman]

Watched the highlight show just now, not too bad, some interesting insight especially into tyres, seems they are very difficult and this on a warm track, could be troubling later in the year.

Buemi needs a slap, he really does, shooing the camera away like some prima donna, he is great behind the wheel but out of the car he is a total arse, literally *******ing Hartley for going too fast in qualifying, sorry son you were not fast enough to do that job so sod off, how he has lasted this long without being smashed in the face by someone on that team I dont know, does he have some hold over people there or something?

[Adam43]

Isn’t it weird when someone gets all worked up about something and reacts in a certain way!

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Watched the highlight show just now, not too bad, some interesting insight especially into tyres, seems they are very difficult and this on a warm track, could be troubling later in the year.

Buemi needs a slap, he really does, shooing the camera away like some prima donna, he is great behind the wheel but out of the car he is a total arse, literally *******ing Hartley for going too fast in qualifying, sorry son you were not fast enough to do that job so sod off, how he has lasted this long without being smashed in the face by someone on that team I dont know, does he have some hold over people there or something?

Not exactly a guy who is known for being that everywhere. And I'm pretty sure being fast in the car is kinda the point of why he was hired

[flatlandsman]

Of course, I was not at all talking about that, but out of the car he is a very strange individual, very up and down almost as if he has some mental helath issue.

[Adam43]

Based on the internet where we see people get sweary and worked up about something that doesn’t affect them I can imagine a lot of people would get hot under the collar in a racing environment. So I’m not sure it is very strange.

I applaud people who can keep their cool, understand those that in the moment don’t.

[J Jay]

While I'm not particularly fond of Buemi, it doesn't matter that much, surely? He's quick, experienced and must be a good enough team player to still be at Toyota throughout its time in prototypes.

His surly outlook compliments the ever-cheerful Hartley and Hirakawa, who is visibly more comfortable in and out of the car with every season.

[flatlandsman]

The issue is I can imagine him being a very difficult person to work with, he literally tried to rollock Hartley just after he came in from qualifying, and fair play to Brendan he was still in the car, I would have told him to get stuffed. He has been chosen to do that job, you have not been, it is a long race, get over it.

And for goodness sake its a forum, you are allowed to get a little edgy at times it affects nobody whatsoever, gobbing off at your team mate who made a mistake on a qualifying lap, sorry that to me is not on. he has a reputation for it, would you want to work with someone like that?

the guy gets almost hysterical at times, seems very close to the edge, almost as if he has some weird mental health issue.

I submit it does not affect his driving, there are far rasher drivers, and that is to his immense credit, that it does not affect driving. As he seems to be permanently on edge.

Do you see anyone else doing it? No,

[Adam43]

My point was for goodness sake it’s motor racing it’s not surprising people get a bit edgy. We’ve no idea what he’s actually like to work with.

It struck me as funny that you were angry with him for something similar to what you were doing at that moment. Except you hadn’t forgotten you could be caught on camera you actively chose to do it in public.

So I had seen someone else do it.

And I have seen people in pressure situations do similar things. I’ve watched sport. And seen people drive. Or, or, or, … life.

Kudos to the people who don’t. But, as I said, I don’t hate those that do.

I was just having a bit of fun at that. It’s a forum.