General Sportscar Chat thread

[Akrapovic]

Each to their own, but to me the entire point is teams preparing these incredible cars for these brilliant drivers to race. If it becomes a competition on who can program a car to drive the fastest, then I lose interest. Whilst it will be an engineering marvel that'll be incredibly impressive, I'm not interested in competitive C++ coding.

[Deleted]

Would you be interested in some human vs AI racing then?



PS
In Roborace, it would be competition of programming, but perhaps later elsewhere, programming AND building the best possible racing vehicle. You could theoretically get purer performance out of the cars than with error prone human.

[rich07]

Wolf Henzler taking the cinnamon challenge at Falkens end of year shindig. Good to see them enjoying themselves

https://www.facebook.com/martin.ragg...3666602165661/

[airbusA346]

Philipp Eng has confirmed on Facebook, that he is now BMW works driver. His racing program will be announced in the new year.

[Deleted]

Let's list our top 10 worst executed efforts at LM this decade so far.

Mine

10) 2015 SARD Morand Pescarolo Judd LMP2
9) 2010 JLOC Lamborghini Murcielago RS-V LMGT1
8) 2012(/13?) Gulf Racing Middle East Lola Nissan LMP2
7) 2013 DKR Engineering Lola Judd LMP2
6) 2012 Pescarolo Sport Pescarolo 03 Judd LMP1
5) 2010 Autocon Motorsports Lola AER LMP1
4) 2014 Nissan Motorsports Nissan ZEOD G56
3) 2010 RSR Jaguar XKR LMGT2
2) 2011 Aston Martin Racing AMR-One LMP1
1) 2015 Nissan Motorsports Nismo GT-R LMP1

Honorary mention to AMR to for continuously screwing LMGTE despite godly allowances.

Will give explanations for places if someone asks

[Pontlieue]

I would add the Blank/Bachelier/Mallegol AF Corse GTE Am entry. These guys were so far off the pace, they make all other ams looks like pros.

Oh, and everything called "Lotus". Whether GTE, LMP2 or LMP1 - all of their entries were woefully uncompetitive.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

I would add the Blank/Bachelier/Mallegol AF Corse GTE Am entry. These guys were so far off the pace, they make all other ams looks like pros.l.

Not the teams fault-you can give people all the tools and support but if they're slow they shouldn't be there.

[Deleted]

I can give ByKolles a free out of jail card (for now...), but Lotus yeah, the lackluster Jetalliance GTE linkup and the infamous court order of ceasing the P2 cars on pitlane, that would qualify them well in the list. I actually had the Evora as 10, but I found the retardness of Morand's actions more annoying this year so put them there instead

[Akrapovic]

2007 T2M Motorsport in their LMP2 Dome. A mediocre Porsche GT2 team who swapped to LMP2 and managed to qualify last (overall, not just in class) by 30 seconds. And amazingly, they were 40 seconds off of their own GT2 time, in the LMP2.

[Deleted]

It did 4:24.078 in test day, which while garbage, wasn't quite as garbage hehe... wasn't that team involved with JLOC later on too

I did say this decade though... But of course, you may list noughties on your own. Think JLOC would steal that with the two one-lapper showups!

[Deleted]

Beyond LM, ALMS 2011 had the most epic lineup of Minardis along the line... when has a single year last seen such a catering, and when will it again...

Jaguar XKR
Lotus Evora GTE
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560 'GT2'
Doran Ford GT
Panoz Abruzzi

Autocon also still dragged in their mummified Lola B06/10 AER in LMP1. Of course, by DP tech standards it had still been brand new cutting edge, but still

Only thing missing was some Normas. And guess the AMR-One had it been ready prior Ricard. And oh Ian Dawson with his Radical O' Crap. Of course he did (briefly) show up next year.

[rich07]

I think JLOC wins on account of taping torches to the Lamborghinis doors at Le Mans so they could meet the illuminated number requirement.

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by rich07

I think JLOC wins on account of taping torches to the Lamborghinis doors at Le Mans so they could meet the illuminated number requirement.

What? Is that true?
I hope so as I nearly choked on my Dr Pepper on reading it!
Freakin' hilarious!

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

What? Is that true?
I hope so as I nearly choked on my Dr Pepper on reading it!
Freakin' hilarious!

I heard it years ago from a reliable source. Apparently there is a pic floating around somewhere online.

[Deleted]

Prediction Questions for you!
By 2020

1) Does WEC still exist at all? [Yes/No]
2) If it does exist, are there non-Grade 1 tracks besides LM in it? [Yes/No]
3) If it does exist, is Sebring again part of it? [Yes/No]
4) If it does exist, are there be race distances other than just 6/24 hourers in WEC? [Yes/No]
5) Does NASCAR still control the main US landscape? [Yes/No]
6) Does ACO have sportscar series of some sorts, LMP3 Sprint or new ALMS iteration or whatever, in North America? [Yes/No]
7) Has LMGTE collapsed like GT1? [Yes/No]
8) Has GT3 collapsed because of *whatever* [Yes/No]
9) Has LMP3 failed? [Yes/No]
10) Is global LMP2 still stuck in it's spec-formula of 2017? [Yes/No]
11) Are there any privateer LMP1s left? [Yes/No]
12) Has LMP1 returned to ELMS? [Yes/No]
13) Is Audi still involved in LMP1? [Yes/No]
14) Has the grid at Le Mans expanded beyond 60 garages (projected for 2017) as in more than 60 actual participants for the 24? [Yes/No]
15) Are all ACO categories running spec tires now? [Yes/No]
16) Does Eurosport still have Le Mans TV rights? [Yes/No]
17) Nordschleife - does it still have the 24 Hours? [Yes/No]
18) Ratel's GT Series, have they went back to their 'former' FIA GT glory days of (somewhat) global championships? [Yes/No]
19) Do you think this site will look exactly the same as it does now, and has for forever now? [Yes/No]
20) Are you going to be still here by then, 2020? [Yes/No]

YOUR OWN OPINIONS.

Of course you may expand your answers beyond just one word answers if you wish

[Deleted]

Mine

1) Does WEC still exist at all? [Yes/No]
2) If it does exist, are there non-Grade 1 tracks besides LM in it? [Yes/No] Kyalami
3) If it does exist, is Sebring again part of it? [Yes/No]
4) If it does exist, are there be race distances other than just 6/24 hourers in WEC? [Yes/No]
5) Does NASCAR still control the main US landscape? [Yes/No]
6) Does ACO have sportscar series of some sorts, LMP3 Sprint or new ALMS iteration or whatever, in North America? [Yes/No]
7) Has LMGTE collapsed like GT1? [Yes/No] Well even though I don't see it happening, even not for cost reasons, I kinda hope it has, we need fresh ideas and structure
8) Has GT3 collapsed because of *whatever* [Yes/No]
9) Has LMP3 failed? [Yes/No]
10) Is global LMP2 still stuck in it's spec-formula of 2017? [Yes/No]
11) Are there any privateer LMP1s left? [Yes/No] Few, and even in worst case scenario it cannot be much worse participant numbers than now right??
12) Has LMP1 returned to ELMS? [Yes/No]
13) Is Audi still involved in LMP1? [Yes/No] Sometimes end of the road does come...
14) Has the grid at Le Mans expanded beyond 60 garages (projected for 2017) as in more than 60 actual participants for the 24? [Yes/No]
15) Are all ACO categories running spec tires now? [Yes/No] Honestly get the vibe from all this cost cap crap and under-the-desk deals!!
16) Does Eurosport still have Le Mans TV rights? [Yes/No]
17) Nordschleife - does it still have the 24 Hours? [Yes/No] Think they'll figure it out
18) Ratel's GT Series, have they went back to their 'former' FIA GT glory days of (somewhat) global championships? [Yes/No]
19) Do you think this site will look exactly the same as it does now, and has for forever now? [Yes/No]
20) Are you going to be still here by then, 2020? [Yes/No] Ummmmmm.....

[Artur]

The most tricky one for me is the very first. Sportscar championships are very fragile and can come and go quite easily, quickly or suddenly. Most of the others I'll answer with more certainty, or better said, confidence.

1) Does WEC still exist at all? [Yes/No]
2) If it does exist, are there non-Grade 1 tracks besides LM in it? [Yes/No]
3) If it does exist, is Sebring again part of it? [Yes/No]
4) If it does exist, are there be race distances other than just 6/24 hourers in WEC? [Yes/No]
5) Does NASCAR still control the main US landscape? [Yes/No] I think they will not see much opportunity for profit with sportscar series and let it go
6) Does ACO have sportscar series of some sorts, LMP3 Sprint or new ALMS iteration or whatever, in North America? [Yes/No]
7) Has LMGTE collapsed like GT1? [Yes/No]
8) Has GT3 collapsed because of *whatever* [Yes/No]
9) Has LMP3 failed? [Yes/No]
10) Is global LMP2 still stuck in it's spec-formula of 2017? [Yes/No]
11) Are there any privateer LMP1s left? [Yes/No] obviously, it will be otherwise if manufacturers are gone
12) Has LMP1 returned to ELMS? [Yes/No]
13) Is Audi still involved in LMP1? [Yes/No] though, this question is quite hard to answer too
14) Has the grid at Le Mans expanded beyond 60 garages (projected for 2017) as in more than 60 actual participants for the 24? [Yes/No]
15) Are all ACO categories running spec tires now? [Yes/No] I think LMP1 will always be open
16) Does Eurosport still have Le Mans TV rights? [Yes/No] can't see the current thing changing given it's ideal to distribute all across Europe
17) Nordschleife - does it still have the 24 Hours? [Yes/No] why wouldn't it? It's a great success and have a long tradition
18) Ratel's GT Series, have they went back to their 'former' FIA GT glory days of (somewhat) global championships? [Yes/No]
19) Do you think this site will look exactly the same as it does now, and has for forever now? [Yes/No] Probably will change because you brought it up
20) Are you going to be still here by then, 2020? [Yes/No] I hope so.

[Coach Ep]

My 'doom' answers...

By 2020

1) Does WEC still exist at all? Barely but yes - shrinking manufacturer participation in both P1 and GTE plus the failure of the new P2 concept leave the ACO/FIA scrambling for enough entrants in 3 of the 4 classes - GTE-Am fills more than half the field which averages below 25.
2) If it does exist, are there non-Grade 1 tracks besides LM in it? Fat chance!
3) If it does exist, is Sebring again part of it? Did I say "Fat chance" yet?
4) If it does exist, are there be race distances other than just 6/24 hourers in WEC? See previous answer.
5) Does NASCAR still control the main US landscape? Who else?
6) Does ACO have sportscar series of some sorts, LMP3 Sprint or new ALMS iteration or whatever, in North America? Will never happen (and the US WEC round will long be dropped by 2020)
7) Has LMGTE collapsed like GT1? Is about to,
8) Has GT3 collapsed because of *whatever*? Certainly not as it's about to take over GTE's crown.
9) Has LMP3 failed? No, biggest success in a long time for the ACO - it'll be the new spec-P2 format that will fail dramatically.
10) Is global LMP2 still stuck in it's spec-formula of 2017? No, opened up slightly to allow more engine suppliers in - number of chassis constructors still limited to 4, no one else is out there anymore anyway.
11) Are there any privateer LMP1s left? Maybe.
12) Has LMP1 returned to ELMS? What LMP1s?
13) Is Audi still involved in LMP1? Jawohl
14) Has the grid at Le Mans expanded beyond 60 garages (projected for 2017) as in more than 60 actual participants for the 24? No need at all as entries have dipped below 60 (as WEC struggles).
15) Are all ACO categories running spec tires now? Most of them.
16) Does Eurosport still have Le Mans TV rights? Not a clue.
17) Nordschleife - does it still have the 24 Hours? But of course!
18) Ratel's GT Series, have they went back to their 'former' FIA GT glory days of (somewhat) global championships? Sprint series will be gone, BES has 1 or 2 Euro events added to the calendar, Intercontinental Cup is not a big hit as costs are too high for teams to compete full-time.
19) Do you think this site will look exactly the same as it does now, and has for forever now? Not every change is good, is it?
20) Are you going to be still here by then, 2020? Hell yeah!

[seanyb505]

1) Does WEC still exist at all? [Yes/No] Pretty strong now, Don't think it will completely disintegrate in 4 years. It may be on life support.
2) If it does exist, are there non-Grade 1 tracks besides LM in it? [Yes/No]
3) If it does exist, is Sebring again part of it? [Yes/No]
4) If it does exist, are there be race distances other than just 6/24 hourers in WEC? [Yes/No]
5) Does NASCAR still control the main US landscape? [Yes/No] It's on life support, like Grand Am and ALMS toward the end.
6) Does ACO have sportscar series of some sorts, LMP3 Sprint or new ALMS iteration or whatever, in North America? [Yes/No] Still GT type tie in, but no ACO controlled series.
7) Has LMGTE collapsed like GT1? [Yes/No] It's gotten easier to switch between GTE and GT3, making GT3 sales carry the burden of developing GTE cars.
8) Has GT3 collapsed because of *whatever* [Yes/No]
9) Has LMP3 failed? [Yes/No] Too many have been sold for it to fail in 4 years. See LMPC.
10) Is global LMP2 still stuck in it's spec-formula of 2017? [Yes/No] But it's clear something needs to change because 1-2 of the constructors stopped constructing since the other 3-2 made faster cars for the first 2 years, and no one bought the slow 1-2.
11) Are there any privateer LMP1s left? [Yes/No] I really don't know.
12) Has LMP1 returned to ELMS? [Yes/No] Current structure heralded as doing well, 4 years won't completely change that.
13) Is Audi still involved in LMP1? [Yes/No] How long can one really stay?
14) Has the grid at Le Mans expanded beyond 60 garages (projected for 2017) as in more than 60 actual participants for the 24? [Yes/No]
15) Are all ACO categories running spec tires now? [Yes/No] LMP1 still "open" with all entrants running Michelins.
16) Does Eurosport still have Le Mans TV rights? [Yes/No] No idea.
17) Nordschleife - does it still have the 24 Hours? [Yes/No] But only on the Grand Prix circuit.
18) Ratel's GT Series, have they went back to their 'former' FIA GT glory days of (somewhat) global championships? [Yes/No] He has his hands in more global events, but it's not a cleanly structured race series.
19) Do you think this site will look exactly the same as it does now, and has for forever now? [Yes/No] Different posters, but same layout.
20) Are you going to be still here by then, 2020? [Yes/No] Depends on the quality of the posters, but I hope so.

[Pontlieue]

1) Does WEC still exist at all? [Yes/No] I can't see it completely disintegrating within four years, given how well it is doing now.
2) If it does exist, are there non-Grade 1 tracks besides LM in it? [Yes/No] Most likely not, since few Grade 2 tracks have the facilities that the manufacturers want.
3) If it does exist, is Sebring again part of it? [Yes/No] Neither IMSA nor FIA have any interest in having WEC at Sebring, so sadly no.
4) If it does exist, are there be race distances other than just 6/24 hourers in WEC? [Yes/No] Knowing the FIA's love for standartization, probably not.
5) Does NASCAR still control the main US landscape? [Yes/No] TUSC or whatever it is called now hasn't been a success so far, but I don't see any serious alternatives that could emerge by 2020.
6) Does ACO have sportscar series of some sorts, LMP3 Sprint or new ALMS iteration or whatever, in North America? [Yes/No] The question is a bit vague. I think there will be a connection between ACO and IMSA, but no series directly run by the ACO.
7) Has LMGTE collapsed like GT1? [Yes/No] Unlikely. GTE Pro is healthier than it has been for the last five years.
8) Has GT3 collapsed because of *whatever* [Yes/No] I don't think it will have collapsed, but it won't be dominating GT racing as it does right now.
9) Has LMP3 failed? [Yes/No] The class is currently booming. At worst, it's going to become a Ligier spec class.
10) Is global LMP2 still stuck in it's spec-formula of 2017? [Yes/No] Sadly, yes. And even worse, I imagine that one or two chassis builders will have an advantage over the rest, reducing variety further. But FIA won't mind, they don't care about variety.
11) Are there any privateer LMP1s left? [Yes/No] If there's one good thing about the new LMP2 regulations, it might be a revival of privateer LMP1.
12) Has LMP1 returned to ELMS? [Yes/No] Unless all manufacturers pull out, resulting in a significant decrease in LMP1 costs, I don't see LMP1 returning to ELMS.
13) Is Audi still involved in LMP1? [Yes/No] Unless the emissions scandal forces VW to cut costs massively, I think they'll stay. They've been in LMP1 for almost twenty years now.
14) Has the grid at Le Mans expanded beyond 60 garages (projected for 2017) as in more than 60 actual participants for the 24? [Yes/No] Increasing the amount of garages even further will be difficult without a major pit lane redesign.
15) Are all ACO categories running spec tires now? [Yes/No] Standartized parts, especially tyres, have been a major part of FIAs futile attempts at cost cutting across several series. I expect that trend to continue.
16) Does Eurosport still have Le Mans TV rights? [Yes/No] Only a specialized sports channel can afford to broadcast 24 Hours live, so I expect Eurosport to keep them.
17) Nordschleife - does it still have the 24 Hours? [Yes/No] Surely yes. Whether GT3 are still the top class is a different question.
18) Ratel's GT Series, have they went back to their 'former' FIA GT glory days of (somewhat) global championships? [Yes/No]
19) Do you think this site will look exactly the same as it does now, and has for forever now? [Yes/No] I hope so.
20) Are you going to be still here by then, 2020? [Yes/No] This forum, or sportscar racing in general? I've stuck with Formula 1 for 16 years now, despite everything they've done to that series, so they'd have to do some serious damage to sportscar racing to scare me away. This forum is one of the better motorsports forums, so I'll probably stay as long as I'm interested in sportscar racing.

[Deleted]

Enjoyed those gloomy views Coach... myself, I didn't want to be QUITE as pessimistic as I usually am. God knows I'm not a fan of WEC in it's current form at all, but I think it'll survive well enough for the coming decade...

Artur (and others), the reason I included Nurburgring was because of the ongoing financial and ownership issues, although admittedly they have gone for the better recently. So hopefully we all are right in our predictions there

I guess Bonus Question I forgot to put would be whether or not Asian Le Mans survives for 2020.

Me thinks not. But then again it's still here, so even if it had 2 cars they'd probably keep it breathing and alas, I'd be wrong

[Coach Ep]

It's not all doom however.

Barely is my interpretation of WEC's status, I feel that with the ongoing standardization of the series (tracks, duration, P2 spec rules, spec tires, etc.) and the financial stress that the ever increasing costs to compete cause, will take its toll on the number of entries. That might not cause the series to collapse but will take out even more of its attractiveness for me.

In the US/N-A things could still swing both ways with the new prototype rules, but with the current ownership and the traditional US racing culture it seems unlikely racing will increase significantly - IMSA's current FCY procedures is a prime example (and there are many more) of things that need dramatic improvement in order to increase the appeal of the series - and sportscar racing as a whole over here.

At the same time, I expect PWC/SRO's new GT3 enduro will be a success, so much it might develop into a mini BES with a couple of longer races for GT3/GT4 in a couple of years time? And if IMSA keeps the door closed for P3s we might see those participating as well, who knows???

[Deleted]

Well I guess AMA showed that DMG/NASCAR regime can be broken. I don't think anything will change here, but in general lots can still happen in couple of years time. Just like it did with American landscape between the glory days of 2008 to the start of 2014...

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Beyond LM, ALMS 2011 had the most epic lineup of Minardis along the line... when has a single year last seen such a catering, and when will it again...

Jaguar XKR
Lotus Evora GTE
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560 'GT2'
Doran Ford GT
Panoz Abruzzi

Puzzled by the inclusion of the Fords. One of the Robertsons' Doran Fords landed a podium (at Lime Rock, IIRC) in 2011. For a privateer team running a non-factory developed car in such a deep class of factory teams and works-supported teams as the ALMS GT class was in 2011 is pretty good. Surely this elevates them above cars like the Abruzzi?

It should also be noted that the Jetalliance Lotuses were actually ILMC entries, though they raced at ALMS events as a result of the unique ILMC schedule.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

Puzzled by the inclusion of the Fords. One of the Robertsons' Doran Fords landed a podium (at Lime Rock, IIRC) in 2011. For a privateer team running a non-factory developed car in such a deep class of factory teams and works-supported teams as the ALMS GT class was in 2011 is pretty good. Surely this elevates them above cars like the Abruzzi?

It should also be noted that the Jetalliance Lotuses were actually ILMC entries, though they raced at ALMS events as a result of the unique ILMC schedule.

True the Fords we're more like Saubers than Minardis (and definitely not total crap like the other four), but I think it still belongs to that "B Group", ie little obscure tribes at the back...

And yes it was the Jet Lotus (AJR didn't purchase that garbage chassis til 2012) but Lotus regardless. I remember having such fun with that at PLM!
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....postcount=1099

Too bad all five never raced together, as the Evora skipped Sebring and the West Lambo + Abruzzi never survived for PLM when the Lotus reappeared for ILMC. Then in 2012, the (much bopped) AJR Lotus had no-one to compete for jumbo positions as Jag had already put end to it's miserable existence and Robertson Ford was out of homologation