[Team] Red Bull: Unbullievable

[ChrisA]

Jos Vestappen not attending this week's GP. Hopefully things might settle down a bit within RBR.

[chillibowl]

in a weird way im hopeful that this story will be put on the back burner while in SA.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

in a weird way im hopeful that this story will be put on the back burner while in SA.

I agree and am hoping that the on-track action is good enough for everyone to have something else to talk about instead...

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by peebee2

On the other hand, Mercedes need a new team leader, absolutely love Max Verstappen and have a virtually unlimited bag of money...

We all know that Russell is there to be the new leader. If he wasn't , Hamilton would have got a new 5 year deal in 20/21.
Funny how LH fans hate George Russell more than Max even. And try and cut him down any chance they get

[Aysedasi]

Very good. We've got the picture now. You're a George fan..... Which is all fine and dandy, but you don't really need to remind us in every other post...

[Greem]

Also assuming that a comment from one post reflects across all LH fans (of whim I am one, but I also actively support several other drivers).

That's the football fan trap - if you like THEM you can't possibly like US.

Well... F1 ain't football, and when you've been following it as long as I have (which isn't as long as Aysedasi ) it's entirely possible to just be an F1 fan. Or more accurately, enthusiast!

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by PanozDP01

We all know that Russell is there to be the new leader. If he wasn't , Hamilton would have got a new 5 year deal in 20/21.
Funny how LH fans hate George Russell more than Max even. And try and cut him down any chance they get

Maybe you should tell Toto. Again. I don't think he's necessarily got the same message.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Greem

Also assuming that a comment from one post reflects across all LH fans (of whim I am one, but I also actively support several other drivers).

That's the football fan trap - if you like THEM you can't possibly like US.

Well... F1 ain't football, and when you've been following it as long as I have (which isn't as long as Aysedasi ) it's entirely possible to just be an F1 fan. Or more accurately, enthusiast!

Correct, it's weird people have to be like this. And fairly immature.

Lebron or Jordan. Messi or Ronaldo, Nadal or Federer.

I could go on forever.

Appreciate them both.

I'm not a fan of LH the person but I can appreciate that he is up there with the best ever on track.

George is tracking to a solid Jenson Button-esque career which is nothing to be sneezed at and may even end up with a title or two.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

A little while ago, maybe a year or so, Horner banned Verstappen Snr from the pit/garage area simply because he was trying to throw his weight around and generally interfering with the smooth running of the team.

Back in the day when he raced Jos' nickname was 'Jos the Boss', and that was before he got to F1!

[PanozDP01]

Latest rumor. Horner tried to acquire the Red Bull team with British financiers backing him. And he was doing this behind the back of Marko. And Austria.

https://twitter.com/TheTechnician44/status/1764750888172667362?t=VKpt63jA_V6uha0ryViGSg&s=19

[Skam85]

Source: a poorly grammared Microsoft Word screenshot from "TheTechnician44" on twitter

[Alan52]

When Adam43 named this thread back in 2019 he must have been able to see into the future to this very moment.
Getting more bizarre by the day.

[Kingair]

Bit like Coronation Street meets EastEnders.

[Skam85]

I never liked the drink anyways

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Source: a poorly grammared Microsoft Word screenshot from "TheTechnician44" on twitter

It is a terrible source. But most are when it comes to this story

The reason I posted it is because to me at least, it is the first theory that gives a coherent reason for all of this happening. Horner launching a hostile takeover of Red Bull racing. Or at least trying to. And it makes sense because he's probably skeptical of Mintzlaff. And can foresee trouble for the team in the future. And it appears that the Thai shareholders backed him on it.

[GTRMagic]

Will there even be a Red Bull Racing operation in the future?
Joe Saward’s Article Here

Would the owner of the Red Bull Racing assets et al potentially be looking to exit?
Could Ford be a willing and able buyer?
Could Andretti Global be a buyer?

With the different columns of the Concorde agreement, the substantial outside branding on both the RBR and RB teams, does that operation wash its own face under the operating cost and capital cost caps?

And with the power trains business coming along, a paying customer or two might do nicely to funding the engine development budget, or offsetting the costs anyway..

It might even get more interesting to punt the RB team and get a full focused works operation…

Funny what comes out of a few alleged WhatsApp intercepted messages…

[Greem]

That's a great article, thanks. Possibly the most balanced and least salacious one I've seen on the current shenanigans, and with a few extra bits I didn't know about.

[Akrapovic]

It is a great article, especially for someone who has all the evidence. Joe can be a bit difficult sometimes, but he is generally very balanced.

What's interesting is he has the evidence and says the full story is really ugly. So _something_ big has happened. This isn't a non-story - we just don't have confirmation of what the story is.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Greem

That's a great article, thanks. Possibly the most balanced and least salacious one I've seen on the current shenanigans, and with a few extra bits I didn't know about.

I've been reading Joe for a decade or more. Always good stuff.

Obviously, CH has the support of the biggest shareholder. The other shareholder is Deitrich's son who holds 49%.
The ownership of the Red Bull trademark in Europe and the US is the majority shareholder.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Will there even be a Red Bull Racing operation in the future?
Joe Saward’s Article Here

I found that article very interesting, well informed and even quite encouraging. My belief in the dossier of WhatsApps (already quite low) has now sunk to "totally irrelevant" (except perhaps to Mrs Horner). More than ever, it seems there is a conspiracy between the Dutch and Austrian contingents to get rid of Horner. Never a fan of Christian Horner, I now hope he gives the conspirators a good kicking.

[chillibowl]

random thought, but with the recent speculation that a Marko exit could trigger a release clause for Max, does Marko not getting forced into early retirement/sacked after his Perez comments last year make a bit more sense now?

or maybe thats a little too tin foiley?

Saward talks about this as a series of jabs before the the final haymaker will be landed...curious how long the jabbing has really been going on for?

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Back in the day when he raced Jos' nickname was 'Jos the Boss', and that was before he got to F1!

Only because it rhymed - what did he win to justify that name? Unless its based on the number of convictions

[Richard C]

Joe's article seemed to hit the high points without delving into or repeating the cruder details. My take away is that he sounds like he is taking the leak content at face value, says there is probably more ugly details that are not public yet and also leaves open the door for the possibility that the leaks are fake. And to be fair, I think everyone has to keep saying it might be fake. That an internal war is being fought, but that CH has put himself into a position in which some actions can be used publicly as weapons. I mean, I think he is just tactfully saying what most have been saying. He calls out the reality of libel laws as well as his own code of honor as to what he will or will not say publicly. He is saying that if it purely personal and does not impact the sport then he is not going to report on it, but on the other side if it does impacts the sport then it is a potential topic. I agree with this (and have said as much earlier)

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

I found that article very interesting, well informed and even quite encouraging. My belief in the dossier of WhatsApps (already quite low) has now sunk to "totally irrelevant" (except perhaps to Mrs Horner). More than ever, it seems there is a conspiracy between the Dutch and Austrian contingents to get rid of Horner. Never a fan of Christian Horner, I now hope he gives the conspirators a good kicking.

I think that while the internal RB politics are overshadowing most of it at this point, I can't agree as to the leak contents being irrelevant. If accurate, and even if just a snapshot, those clearly show inappropriate behavior by CH. I mean that is why this continues to have traction. Imagine if a full report had been leaked and it went the other way (exonerating CH). This story would have died down.

People may be out to get him, but (based upon the veracity of the leak) he seems to be far from being innocent. They are playing hardball with him and using whatever ammo they can.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

random thought, but with the recent speculation that a Marko exit could trigger a release clause for Max, does Marko not getting forced into early retirement/sacked after his Perez comments last year make a bit more sense now?

or maybe thats a little too tin foiley?

Saward talks about this as a series of jabs before the the final haymaker will be landed...curious how long the jabbing has really been going on for?

As has been speculated, if Max (and by extension Jos) feel they owe Marko for his entry into RBR then I can imagine someone may have done the math (don't upset Max by pushing out Marko).

I still don't get all of the logic behind what Jos is doing. I am not sure if he is just settling personal scores, trying to improve things at RBR by removing the "bad people" or what. I tend to think this is more on the "settling personal scores" side. There also seems to be this assumption that Jos is controlling Max. In that he will pull Max out of RBR. While no doubt he has some level of influence upon Max, I would think Max is his own man.

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Back in the day when he raced Jos' nickname was 'Jos the Boss', and that was before he got to F1!

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Only because it rhymed - what did he win to justify that name? Unless its based on the number of convictions

'Jos Verstappen, affectionately known as “Jos the Boss”, earned his nickname due to his assertive and fearless driving style on the racetrack. His aggressive approach, determination, and willingness to push the limits made him stand out among his peers. Fans and fellow competitors alike recognized his tenacity, and the moniker became synonymous with his racing persona.'

[Mike Harte]

My takeaway from Joe's article was two-fold. Firstly it was that someone was taking screenshots whilst the alleged messaging was actually taking place. In theory only two people could have been aware of this at the time, Horner or the complainant. If we assume that it wasn't Horner, then it has to be the complainant who was complicit in this part of the allegedly sordid business.

The second point that he raised is that the supposedly sordid part was only a very small part of the messages that were released; the bulk of it was concerning Red Bull Racing and it's future. And in Joe's mind, that was the far more important side of the messaging.

From reading his article, I think he is referring to there being more explosive revelations to come that concern that future of RBR and how, at least one side, are fighting, and the tactics they are using, so maintain it's future in their hands.

Another point to add, is that Newey stated in a manner that left no doubt that if Horner was pushed out, then he would leave. I am fairly certain that money, no matter how much, would tempt him to change his mind - I am pretty certain that he is fairly comfortably well off - and he loves a challenge, and I'm equally sure that a number of other teams would welcome him with open arms.