[WEC] Toyota Hypercar Discussion

[flatlandsman]

I think my point really is this.

We get told and it's obvious this a team sport, this guy looks like he might be a difficult guy to like or get on with, he seems over emotional.

I may be wrong, but he seems somehow able to have hissy fits in the pits even in car yet it does no affect his driving, it clearly does in FE, but not here, that is amazing self control in my eyes, as he is clearly able to detach his emotion from his driving, something few can really do.

But I do think he must be a difficult person to like as, a team mate, more one to tolerate for his ability, speed and experience

[PhilipR]

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...-wec/10603418/

Gazoo Toyota Racing/ Not Toyota Gazoo Racing/ Racing Toyota Gazoo/ Toyota Gazoo Racing but the car is painted white and red evaluating entering a "privateer" effort with "no links" to the factory in the future
At least hotels will be making a profit!

[tomcug]

Leupen replied: "How many cars does Porsche run? How many cars does Ferrari run? So why should we not run three?"

Typical Toyota-answer, I'm not surprised one bit. Mr Leupen, difference is that Porsche are having true customer cars and the fact that Ferrari are already cheating doesn't mean you should be allowed too. I really hope for next year factory cars in disguise are banned to save slots for true privateers.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...-wec/10603418/

Gazoo Toyota Racing/ Not Toyota Gazoo Racing/ Racing Toyota Gazoo/ Toyota Gazoo Racing but the car is painted white and red evaluating entering a "privateer" effort with "no links" to the factory in the future
At least hotels will be making a profit!

Interesting that they think it would be impossible for them to have another car next season for their own logistics.

The lead time involved in building an additional car and setting up the infrastructure to run it would make it impossible for a third GR010 to arrive in the WEC in 2025, explained Leupen.

I would have thought it would be impossible for grid space reasons, and would imagine Toyota could build up spares and personnel by next March??

[Matador]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...-wec/10603418/

Gazoo Toyota Racing/ Not Toyota Gazoo Racing/ Racing Toyota Gazoo/ Toyota Gazoo Racing but the car is painted white and red evaluating entering a "privateer" effort with "no links" to the factory in the future
At least hotels will be making a profit!

Here for this. Bring TOM's/SARD/Rookie along for the ride and have the car run in Toyota classic LeMans Liveries. YES!!!!!


The idea of the GR010 overlapping with the Hydrogen car is also intriguing.

Originally Posted by tomcug

Typical Toyota-answer, I'm not surprised one bit. Mr Leupen, difference is that Porsche are having true customer cars and the fact that Ferrari are already cheating doesn't mean you should be allowed too. I really hope for next year factory cars in disguise are banned to save slots for true privateers.

Well, the precedent has been set hasn't it?

Originally Posted by joeb

Interesting that they think it would be impossible for them to have another car next season for their own logistics.



I would have thought it would be impossible for grid space reasons, and would imagine Toyota could build up spares and personnel by next March??

If you look at it, the grid is currently 37 cars. Plus two Astons and one more of each Lambo, Isotta and Caddy. "That's 42 cars" you say, but how about the idea that two 963s go away because Jota takes over the factory Caddy effort? That's your 40 cars next year. I'm sure by 2026 they'll find space for an extra two cars (TOM's Toyota, 2nd Proton). Wonder if we'll see a bid for a McLaren LMDH pair by then? Hyundai hydrogen cars? I wouldn't mind seeing a Vanwall and a customer Glick back by that time. Can the grid take 46 hypercars eventually? Or who might be the first manufacturer team to fold on their "pillar of laziness" after results aren't forthcoming?

[kvenom]

I swear we hear these Toyota 3rd car rumors every year

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by Matador

Well, the precedent has been set hasn't it?

Yes but it can still be banned before too much damage is made. Soon every manufacturer serious about sportscar racing will want three hypercars, leaving 0 room for true privateers. And "this hybrid is too complex for a privateer to run" is kinda hillarious because they literally admit that since (true) privateers "can't" run their cars, those are in fact factory efforts in disguise.

[Adam43]

The too many cars problem! When will they learn?

[Aysedasi]

Astonishing isn't it. We don't need a high performance time machine to go back to two Toyotas, two privateer Glicks and a grandfathered Rebellion.... Time flies.....

[J Jay]

That's a bit harsh, we're all aware of how privateers have often (always?) pulled the ACO through the lean times when the manufacturers go away. It's fair to ask that privateers are not ignored when the going is good.

However, it is clear that the ACO firmly see LMP2 as the place for privateers going forwards, leaving LMH to factory efforts, official or otherwise, with "super-teams" as the only exceptions. They think that they have put enough in place to keep a steady level of manufacturer involvement.

[TF110]

Porsche may lose 2 cars in the WEC with Jota taking over Cadillac, and if that happens, the grid really won't be over subscribed. A third Toyota wont even come on until 2026 and I bet it'll be a new GR010 if that's the nomenclature. I understand the reasoning behind the car being too complex for privateers. I think it's more about keeping their secrets close to home. So I think it'll be a team like those in Super GT GT500 class, like TOMS, defacto Manufacturer teams that have deep history with Toyota. Sorta like AF Corse running the 499s.

[v8supes]

Theres an image of what i presume to be some kinda "fantasy" Lexus hypercar doing the rounds on social media and it looks fantastic!

[Matador]

Originally Posted by TF110

Porsche may lose 2 cars in the WEC with Jota taking over Cadillac, and if that happens, the grid really won't be over subscribed. A third Toyota wont even come on until 2026 and I bet it'll be a new GR010 if that's the nomenclature. I understand the reasoning behind the car being too complex for privateers. I think it's more about keeping their secrets close to home. So I think it'll be a team like those in Super GT GT500 class, like TOMS, defacto Manufacturer teams that have deep history with Toyota. Sorta like AF Corse running the 499s.

Originally Posted by Matador

Here for this. Bring TOM's/SARD/Rookie along for the ride and have the car run in Toyota classic LeMans Liveries. YES!!!!!

Wait wait.... I have one more: Rebellion TOM'S GR010

[TF110]

Originally Posted by v8supes

Theres an image of what i presume to be some kinda "fantasy" Lexus hypercar doing the rounds on social media and it looks fantastic!

Whoa, that looks great! I wonder where that originated?

[Adam43]

How did the drivers compare at Le Mans?

Well it is hard to read too much into a race with changeable conditions, but here's the data.

Average Lap time (order Top 20)

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 10	Top 20	Top 40	Laps
1	Jose Maria LOPEZ (P) Toyota 7	3:28.562	3:29.629	3:30.233	3:31.534	115
2	Brendon HARTLEY (P) Toyota 8	3:28.698	3:29.940	3:30.418	3:31.324	94
3	Kamui KOBAYASHI (P) Toyota 7	3:28.756	3:30.043	3:30.677	3:31.386	101
4	Sébastien BUEMI (P) Toyota 8	3:30.110	3:30.520	3:30.771	3:31.192	140
5	Nyck DE VRIES (P) Toyota 7	3:31.112	3:32.486	3:33.651	3:40.945	95
6	Ryo HIRAKAWA (P) Toyota 8	3:31.917	3:40.434	3:46.928	3:57.889	77

Buemi taking the lion's share.

For me Lopez did a stonking job. I was going to add considering, but even without that.

Charts show the spread. Two scales are provided to give a little flavour of the dry periods and wet periods. Even the bigger scale chart is truncated before the SC periods.

[tomcug]

Looks like Hirakawa did a single digit amount of laps in the dry. Or some technical problem?

[Adam43]

Yes - does look that way.

[tomcug]

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...al-evo-jokers/
Weren't they the quickest at this year's Le Mans?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by tomcug

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...al-evo-jokers/
Weren't they the quickest at this year's Le Mans?

The general idea of more jokers does make sense though now that the regulations have been extended.

[Adam43]

I thought that. They are thinking longer term.

I’d like a third car, but that’s less likely.

[TF110]

3rd car does look less likely at least for the next season or two. But if the grid expands again, will they go for it? And the jokers make sense instead of a new car if Toyota goes hydrogen. They're not doing a new car next year, so 2026 would be the chance to do one. But if Hydrogen is 2028, what do you get out of a new car, 2 years? Doesn't seem worth the investment.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by TF110

3rd car does look less likely at least for the next season or two. But if the grid expands again, will they go for it? And the jokers make sense instead of a new car if Toyota goes hydrogen. They're not doing a new car next year, so 2026 would be the chance to do one. But if Hydrogen is 2028, what do you get out of a new car, 2 years? Doesn't seem worth the investment.

Especially with BoP at play it really doesn't does it? Had this extension come a year ago maybe I could see it but now... not so much.

Originally Posted by Adam43

I thought that. They are thinking longer term.

I’d like a third car, but that’s less likely.

Same. Dying to see a GR010 on the track with some throwback warpaint. GT-One, Castrol, TS030/Minolta/Casio anyone?

[Articus]

The Lexus RCF-GT3 made it's debut in 2016 for IMSA competition and is the oldest car on the grid. It can still win races in a BOP system 8 years later.

I don't see why manufacturers want new cars or want to use jokers unless for reliability or driver comfort reasons.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Articus

The Lexus RCF-GT3 made it's debut in 2016 for IMSA competition and is the oldest car on the grid. It can still win races in a BOP system 8 years later.

I don't see why manufacturers want new cars or want to use jokers unless for reliability or driver comfort reasons.

Exactly, the RC-F is a prime example.



However as to the why? Competitive advantage & Driveability are two immediate reasons in my estimation. I think we can see for example, despite power cuts how quick the 499p is in a straight line. BoP can be designed around somewhat. If I had to guess the 499p was developed with a low drag aerodynamic profile and high mechanical grip.


Look at the way the 963 is driven for example. No doubt it is now quite quick, but to me it looks like the drivers have to be more on the edge to extract that performance vs the GR010 and the 499 (just look at the onboards).


For the GR010, it was designed before the current regulations were set in stone. I think it's a compromised but well developed design. I'm sure given the practical opportunity they would opt for a new car.

[Articus]

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