[ELMS] ELMS Discussion

[PhilipR]

Originally Posted by Mike E

LMP2 to run at 600bhp and 930kg next year. Who needs Hypercar?

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...ock-notes.html

Will be fun when the ELMS LMP2s lap a track faster than the WEC Hypercars

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by PhilipR

Will be fun when the ELMS LMP2s lap a track faster than the WEC Hypercars

There is a non-trivial chance of that happening, but there was no mention of tires or aero packages, so that could still keep them slower than LMH.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike E

LMP2 to run at 600bhp and 930kg next year. Who needs Hypercar?

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...ock-notes.html

Originally Posted by J Jay

There is a non-trivial chance of that happening, but there was no mention of tires or aero packages, so that could still keep them slower than LMH.

Are they running at 930 kg this year? So this may just be a power boost and they have to keep the aero package from this year as well?

When i first saw this headline I have to admit I was thinking they would be going back to 870kg or whatever it was originally!

[veeten]

But then, one has to remember that LMH/LMDh is at 670hp base, with BoP up to 720hp. Weight at 1035K base with similar BoP adjustment.

No matter how the P2s are changed, the top class will always be faster. It's just that simple...

[veeten]

Remember when the LMP1s were at 900kg and P2 was at 675kg? And that was the early 2000's. Cars like the Porsche RS/Spyder changed that, not to mention Duncan Dayton and Intersport fitted their Lola with a Judd 3.4L V8, and made a for real threat to the 'big boys'.

"Rules are made to be broken"... it's just a matter of how...

[Steve McQ]

Actually, by the times of the RS Spyder, LMP675 was gone in favor of LMP2 and the rules were amended to 750 kg minimum. ACO saw it coming thanks to the MG-Lola EX257 in 2001-2002 with the very first version of the AER inline turbo 4 cylinders, faster than most of LMP900 indeed.

[veeten]

And yet, the main difficulty was the engine. The AER had issues that many of those teams had to deal with, specifically Dyson. No matter how many times they were able to match with Audi (be they Infinieon or Champion), they would come up short, and it would be centered on the turbo I4. Dayton and Intersport knew this over the '03 season, which was why they decided to change to the Judd V8 just before that seasons' Petit Le Mans. Fits the same engine bay, more stable, and producing similar output, many other teams using the EX257 went the same route by the next year, while Dyson stayed with the AER.
Check out the file of the Lola-MG EX 257 at mulsannescorner.com, especially the last photo that explains the Intersport/Judd car.

[Steve McQ]

Oh I know that, just saying that this car was the one which triggered the weight increase in P2 as soon as 2001 thanks to its incredible speed.
No doubt it was really more advanced than many of LMP900 of the time, except from the Audi R8 (and the Bentley Speed 8) of course. Even if the AER was not so reliable (and never was until... recently !) and the chassis lacked developpment, it was an excellent car that could have gunned for the win while being a little LMP675. Not what the ACO wanted, unfortunately. Light was beautiful, and still is. Shame to see top class prototypes weighing more than 1 ton as of today...

[rdjones]

I see that 2024 ELMS calendar is out:-

ELMS Prologue (Barcelona) - 8/9 April
Barcelona - 14 April
Le Castellet - 5 May
Imola - 7 July
Spa - 25 August
Mugello - 29 September
Portimao - 19 October

https://www.europeanlemansseries.com...15b5297cc0a9ea

Still no Silverstone

[Coach Ep]

To me the calendar for the 2nd half of the year is fantastic, Mugello is the biggest cherry on a racing cake in a long time!

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by rdjones

I see that 2024 ELMS calendar is out:-

ELMS Prologue (Barcelona) - 8/9 April
Barcelona - 14 April
Le Castellet - 5 May
Imola - 7 July
Spa - 25 August
Mugello - 29 September
Portimao - 19 October

https://www.europeanlemansseries.com...15b5297cc0a9ea

Still no Silverstone

A shame, but only a small one. Mugello will be amazing (what took the ACO so long?), and the rest are either solid or stable picks.

[Akrapovic]

Feel like Imola is a step down over Monza, still.

[S griffin]

Monza, Imola and Mugello are the three best circuits in Italy and I don't mind whichever one they go to, as long as it's at least one of those. Of the three I'd say Mugello is the most challenging

[PhilipR]

No more night race? That would be a shame. Mugello would be great for dusk to evening

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Feel like Imola is a step down over Monza, still.

Monza will always have more spectacle about it but Imola is a better track for LMP2.

[J Jay]

Been a while since I can recall this happening - WTM disqualified from today's Spa race.

Their bronze driver had no time in the car in free practice or qualifying. That's a rather significant oversight for any team, I would think.

[J Jay]

Absolute poetry at the start of the race:

- Commentators mention a race briefing note, "The race is four hours, not the first corner". Tempting fate...

- Maldonado massively outbrakes himself into T1, takes out Lafarge, Binder, Sato at least.

- An LMP3 follows Sato into the gravel, bumping Sato enough to escape and continue.

Edit - Amazing. Freitas announces the safety car coming in ... just as the LMP3 unbeaches itself and returns to the track. Freitas sounds done, and I don't blame him.

[rika]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Freitas announces the safety car coming in ... just as the LMP3 unbeaches itself and returns to the track. Freitas sounds done, and I don't blame him.

Not pleasant but what choice has LMP3 driver? He has to drive back or abandon race.

[rika]

Mr. Cameron again bumps Fassbender. He does that 2 race ago also.

And Fassbender car damaged now agian.



I think Mr Cameron not friends of Mr Fassbender.

[J Jay]

Tricky situation for #22 - safety car just as Sato pitted, he had to stay in until the pit lane was re-opened, leaving barely 2 hours to give hour stints each, and they have (rightly) been pinged for Sato spinning Lopko.

Yet again, UA down on luck, but also not helping themselves. Should now be an cruise for APR, barring incidents.

[rika]

More problem for UA 22.

[J Jay]

This is the race that keeps on giving - for the second time today, just as Frietas announces the safety car coming in, a car spins (this time the GMB Aston) and it stays out for another lap.

The 2023 ELMS 4 Hours of Track-Cleaning Spa-Francochamps (with some racing in-between cars going off).

[rika]

Not the best LMS race.

More Safety Car.

[J Jay]

And another one. Aberdein this time, same gravel trap (Paul Frere) that Hanley went off on just ... 10 minutes ago.

[tomcug]

Another crash. I think they should just end the race under SC and call it a day