WTCC 2008 Off-season: News & Rumours

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

So N-Tech's car is a used 3 year old chassis. How brilliant.

Well, IIRC in Europsorts WTCC 2008 preview they already laughed about Thompson going from one really old car to... and even older
But dont worry, the Hondas are plenty fast. It's the other small but oh so important things that needs to fall in place...

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Martin Haven

Now, since the Chevrolet engine is (I believe) basically a GM Family Two engine, as launched in 1982/3 in the first FWD Astras and Cavaliers and has since won countless touring car races in Cavaliers and Asconas (with 'normal' AND reversed heads!) there is a diesel version - is it still doing service in the GM ranges??

Could that be more or less the same engine the Ladas will be running? TCT said it's an Opel engine, and I just read that there was a Lada 110 with a GM Family 2 engine...

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by stedevil

Well, IIRC in Europsorts WTCC 2008 preview they already laughed about Thompson going from one really old car to... and even older
But dont worry, the Hondas are plenty fast. It's the other small but oh so important things that needs to fall in place...

It is a bit the touringcar equivalent of the Reiter Lamborghini Murcielago GT Always potential but it just never really made it. N-Tech could be the little kick it needs to get there.

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Could that be more or less the same engine the Ladas will be running? TCT said it's an Opel engine, and I just read that there was a Lada 110 with a GM Family 2 engine...

That thought crossed my mind as well. And Spiess knows how to tune such an engine, so that makes me think that at least the engine department in that car is pretty reasonably equipped.

[Valker]

The Opel engine in Lada 110 2.0 (VAZ 21106) is C20XE but I don't know if it's the same Chevy uses.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

N-Tech could be the little kick it needs to get there.

Already at the very end of last year Honda got their act together. It took pole and an easy 1st race win in ETCC. They only had some problems getting past the traffic in race 2 (Ironically pushed partially of track by the only other Swedish driver in the race :P) or they probably would have taken home the Cup.

2 more cars to test settings and improvments on + the added experience of N-Tech... well, the Hondas might be the very "dangerous" in this years S/W championship.

[duke_toaster]

It might be the same engine used in the BTCC Vectra, which has THE best engine in the BTCC.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by stedevil

Already at the very end of last year Honda got their act together. It took pole and an easy 1st race win in ETCC. They only had some problems getting past the traffic in race 2 (Ironically pushed partially of track by the only other Swedish driver in the race :P) or they probably would have taken home the Cup.

2 more cars to test settings and improvments on + the added experience of N-Tech... well, the Hondas might be the very "dangerous" in this years S/W championship.

Winning the ETCC cup I don't call an achievement with the field there was. That same Honda was no threat to the Volvo in STCC, which drove around 10th in the WTCC race. Which tells me that that Honda still has a long way to go.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

That same Honda was no threat to the Volvo in STCC

When it didnt end up in the gravel or broke down, it was well up there in the front (it retired more then once when leading the race).

Volvo in STCC which drove around 10th in the WTCC race.

It actually finished 8th in one of the races, with extra penalty weigth AND 0 experience of the tires as well as 0 tires "saved from last race". Remember that eg any BMW showing up compteating in a 1 weekend WTCC race at least had access to full tire setup data from the other teams... That tells me the Volvo was right up there at the very top of the WTCC teams and the Honda is hovering somewhere there too.

Time will tell if Im right, but IMO noone should be surprised if the Honda tends to finish in the WTCC top 8 in 2008. I belive it has potential, especially with Thompson, to take home 2008 WDC.

[stedevil]

BTW Hondas performance 2007
STCC
1) DNF
2) DNF
3) n/a
4) +5 laps
5) +2 laps
6) +1 lap
............
7) 9th
8) 2nd
9) 8th
10) 7th
11) 4th
ETCC
1) 1st
7) 7th

I think the latter part of their season hints at their true potential.
To this add the reinforcements they got during the winter
* 2 more cars for testing and development
* N-tech
* Thompson
* Thed Björk (2006 STCC champ)

I think anybody not seeing Hondas as potential STCC & WTCC overall winners is seriously underestimating the team(s).

PS Im not a Honda fan blinded brand love. I would much rather see eg a Volvo winning But on paper pre season Honda for sure to me looks like a top contender.

[Bramzel]

I think you're overestimating Honda's possibilities hugely, but as you say, time will tell.

[snowen250]

Dont underestimate Thompsons abilities either, when he is on form and fired up, there is nobody faster.

[Martin Haven]

In addition to having the considerable talents of Thommo behind the wheel (and who was the only driver to be able to challenge Priaulx for the title in the final race of last season again??) the Honda is a very good base vehicle, on which to base a touring car...

it's longer and wider in the wheelbase than say Chevrolet's Lacetti and when you look at the base model from which the cars are developed, the Accord's potential looks a touch easier to unlock...

Lacetti 4-dr
1796cc
89/121 kW/PS
169 Nm
0-62 9.8s

Accord 4-dr 2.0i VTEC
1998cc
153 PS
Civic Type-R
198 PS
0-62 6.6s

Assuming the Euro R's engine to be similar to Civic Type R (Honda's UK website doesn't acknowledge it's existence, so I am assuming here) Honda has roughly a 60-hp advantage over the Lacetti to start with, in road trim...

Certainly, given that Thommo raced in Brazil last year with a car that was totally unsuited to his style, look what happened to the Alfa when he got it to Valencia and persuaded the team to make changes that he thought would be benificial...

last year the team had just 3 test days... they're missing Brazil to learn more about their new toy, so that the old Honda will be WELL sorted when it gets to Spain...

and let's not forget how well Fabrizio Giovanardi went in a one-off outing for JAS... and that in Mexico 2 years ago, the car started on the outside of the front row for race 1 - in the hands of rookie Ryan Sharp - and went on to finish third...

If it's only THAT good, Thommo's gamble to stay with n-technology will be well rewarded

and that can only be good news for the series

[werner]

What are the baseweights for the 2 cars? I know Alfa's decision to not enter the 159 was at least partly because it would be hard to get the car at the minimumweight, and when the Honda is big, you get the same problem. Having said that, the Honda also to me looks like a great car to start with, Good engine, good aerodynamics and as far as I know well handling and sporty.

[Hf_Integrale]

I think it's important for the car to have the right wheelbase and weight, but that's where the similarities with the road cars stop! The WTCC Lacetti has nothing to do with the one for the road, and I think that's the case by Honda also!

JAS has a damn good team of racing specialists and I think that with the right budget, they can obtain a smashin' good Accord for Thommo! If they can't, nobody can!

Originally Posted by Martin Haven

look what happened to the Alfa when he got it to Valencia and persuaded the team to make changes that he thought would be benificial...

I agree! Thomo was great at Valencia, but I don't think that he had to "persuade" anybody to do any changes at the car. N Tech are experts and they always work together with the drivers. That's one of the reasons Thommo said he'd like to stay with them in 2008!

[werner]

The s2000-rules definitely make sure that the engine has similarities with the standard version. They can change a lot, but the reason the Chevy's engine could take on the others, was that they, offcourse, had a rulebreak. But, that over for next year, and they will loose some horses.

[Les]

anyone mentioned it's raining in Brazil - now that's a leveller

[werner]

That is good news! The BMW-whitewash was a littlebit boring last year. Part of the reason was offcourse the lack of defence of the Seats aswell, as only Coronel tried to resist them,,,

[Hf_Integrale]

So rain! That's good!
I'm waiting for Ivan in front in these conditions... Farfus has some serious work to do to impress the home crowd!

[werner]

Why is it that nobady seems to know wheter BMW starints with diesel or petrolengines? They must have been shipped etc. so it's weird that there hasn't een a leak or a smart journalist...

[Robbe]

BMW drive with petrol engines

A change is maybe planned for Puebla, if Seat dominates Curitiba.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by werner

The BMW-whitewash was a littlebit boring last year.

That was 100% down to the incredible idiocy of giving BMW a weight break in both races becuase one of the races had a rolling start...
Im amazed it actually took the FIA guys a race to figure out that was an insanely large advantage...

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by JMeissner

Have they announced that they will use that chassis in WTCC, and not only for testing?

Sounds unlikely that Honda Team Sweden gets a brand new chassis but not Thompson for WTCC.

stcc.se now writes that Engström will have his old (fully updated) car back and the new car for Thed is currently built in Milano (presumably Thompson's is too)

PS stcc.se also mentions that Honda is rumoured to potentially be the strongest team for 2008 STCC. So I assume quite a few more people then me have made the same assumptions based on the pre season info available.

Go Thompson, Go! I'd love for the 3 "big" brands to get a big scare

[touringlegend]

Everyone - I think now is the time to close the Off season thread and continue any discussion for this weekend in the dedicated thread.