[Team] Red Bull: Unbullievable

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

Sorry mate, cracking great headache and it’s Friday evening here. I need a beer lol. It can be recovered if you want under some circumstances. There is a limit tough, esp if you don’t want it recovered. If he was smart he would have taken a chat export before deleting it.

And tbh im thoroughly sick of the whole deal and its tabloid nature. It’s massively put me off the season as I’m over hearing the Sky team banging on about it or being front page on every site.

Indeed

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Maybe time to shut this thread until the truth outs - it it ever does?….

It's slowly coming out, so can perhaps openly start to discuss it properly. I think she has now been publicly named and so, perhaps more importantly, has her more current love interest. A bit of a dodgy triangle to say the least.

[chillibowl]

have seen mention of the love triangle bit...if true obviously takes this to another level of tawdry!

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

have seen mention of the love triangle bit...if true obviously takes this to another level of tawdry!

Google is your friend!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

have seen mention of the love triangle bit...if true obviously takes this to another level of tawdry!

And unseemly.

[Greem]

Austrian TV speculating that Marko is the source of the leaks; RB may fire him in Monday; Horner may be taken to court - all from https://www.motorsport-magazin.com/f...t-vor-gericht/

Chaos. Complete chaos.

And breaking just as qualifying starts. The media centre in Jeddah must be jumping!

[Mike Harte]

And Marko has stated, perhaps as an inducement to Red Bull to not take any action against him, that Verstappen has a clause in his contract that in the event of Marko leaving, his is able to walk away from the team.

[bjohnsonsmith]

According to this Sports Illustrated article, Horner and Newey have a similar arrangement, with a mutual protection clause in their contracts.


https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/...ssue-escalates

[Richard C]

Who knew Marko was so technically savvy? Uploading files to Google Drive? Removing metadata from images, maybe using a TOR setup to hide source of file upload? I joke as it likely was multiple people working together on that.

And all of these contract clauses reads like some weird mutually assured destruction and/or serious game of "Rock Paper Scissors".

If Marko is out, is this going to be the first domino to fall and trigger more exits including Max and maybe Newey?

VERY frank comments from Max regarding Marko and potential exit of Marko...

https://twitter.com/SCUDERIAFEMBOY/s...96229208252706

Q: Maybe a difficult question, but does your future also depend on him (Marko)?
A: Amongst other things, yes

Richard

[PanozDP01]

This all fits within what I think is the real story: Red Bull is divided into two camps, on one side Horner with backing from the Yoovidhya family, on the other side Red Bull Austria with Mintzlaff, Helmut Marko, Adrian Newey, and the Verstappens.

Horner wants control over Red Bull Racing, while Austria is trying to prevent this at all costs.

Horner has the majority shareholder on his side. I just don't see how this is profitable for Marko, Newey and the Verstappens. Horner did build the enterprise. Horner probably thinks he can manage without them. Obviously they'd take a driver downgrade. But this is what Horner is good at. This is why they had Newey to begin with. He'd find a way to get Lando Norris, Piastri or Leclerc.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by PanozDP01

This all fits within what I think is the real story: Red Bull is divided into two camps, on one side Horner with backing from the Yoovidhya family, on the other side Red Bull Austria with Mintzlaff, Helmut Marko, Adrian Newey, and the Verstappens.

Horner wants control over Red Bull Racing, while Austria is trying to prevent this at all costs.

Horner has the majority shareholder on his side. I just don't see how this is profitable for Marko, Newey and the Verstappens. Horner did build the enterprise. Horner probably thinks he can manage without them. Obviously they'd take a driver downgrade. But this is what Horner is good at. This is why they had Newey to begin with. He'd find a way to get Lando Norris, Piastri or Leclerc.

It certainly feels like it might be something like that - the only thing I'd disagree with is where Newey is aligned. He's made the point before now that he has a break clause in his agreement if Horner isn't there.

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by Tourer

It certainly feels like it might be something like that - the only thing I'd disagree with is where Newey is aligned. He's made the point before now that he has a break clause in his agreement if Horner isn't there.

Yeah it would make more sense if Newey was on Horners side. But some of the tabloids are saying he's on Marko's side. He probably isn't. Something is lost in translation here.

I am a Max fan and Red Bull seems like a good fit for him. But if Horner can keep Newey around , Red Bull can move on without Marko and Max Verstappen. Any of the top tier drivers would be interested in that seat.

[GTRMagic]

Will Ford hang around with this instability in the golden goose?

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Will Ford hang around with this instability in the golden goose?

They might be seeking some justification for departing as they have some quality issues to deal with https://www.motor1.com/news/705930/f...xplorers-trim/ .That will probably cost more than the association with a successful F1 team that is currently planned for 2026.Do they remain for glory by having their name on the cam covers or do they go to save some cash?
It has often been the case with Red Bull that they don't conform to placid behaviour and don't mind being seen as rebels and the amount of publicity the name has had through this situation has kept the name in the public eye.
I expect someone,somewhere will have traced the messages and established how they left the closely monitored world of F1 data.I don't know if many people are aware that it is far from unusual to find that none of the computers in a racing HQ feature USB sockets as it would be a way to leak data.Similarly,emails will be subject to monitoring and I would expect company issued phones to be subject to scrutiny as well.I would not be surprised if they also knew which users were using which particular software licences at any particular time.Whether this sort of information would ever be shared is another thing entirely.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by PanozDP01

This all fits within what I think is the real story: Red Bull is divided into two camps, on one side Horner with backing from the Yoovidhya family, on the other side Red Bull Austria with Mintzlaff, Helmut Marko, Adrian Newey, and the Verstappens.

Newey has stated, some weeks ago, that if Horner is forced out, then he will leave as well. I have a feeling that he is well aware of what has really been going on - he has a very good relationship with Horner - and I don't think that he has any intention of staying around whilst Verstappen Snr is pulling the strings.

And the information that has surfaced in the last few days that, allegedly, Verstappen Snr is/was in a relationship with Horner's PA who is, allegedly, the female who has been suspended, gives an indication of what may have been going on.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

And the information that has surfaced in the last few days that, allegedly, Verstappen Snr is/was in a relationship with Horner's PA who is, allegedly, the female who has been suspended, gives an indication of what may have been going on.

That's certainly what I heard yesterday....

[bjohnsonsmith]

Despite what's going on internally at Red Bull, it hasn't affected the teams performance.

[Greem]

I know it's puerile and rather rude, but I bet neither Horner nor Verstappen Senior realised they were potentially screwing the entire Red Bull sports empire when they were doing whatever it was that they were doing.

Anyway: rumours abound that the Thai continent have lost confidence in Horner now.

What next?

[Greem]

*contingent. Obviously not a continent!

[bjohnsonsmith]

I think this is an excellent, though lengthy article from Andrew Benson on the current state of play.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68525859

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I think this is an excellent, though lengthy article from Andrew Benson on the current state of play.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68525859

Agree it is a nice article. I think it covers a lot and says some things without explicitly or overtly saying them. For example the tip toeing around that the closure of the complaint may be unrelated to the findings of the KC report. That there is the potential that the fix was in (protection) for Horner from the start via the Thai family who appear to be making the big decisions. Explicitly saying this could have been viewed potentially libelous with respect to the Thai family? They place the dots and let you connect them.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, external is an informal fallacy that states that because an event followed another, it was caused by it. Correlation appears to suggest causality, but sometimes it's not the case.

In the Horner situation, the complaint was dismissed after the board received the KC's report. But that is not necessarily the same as the report being crucial in that decision.

Richard

[Richard C]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...team/10585874/

Horner and Marko publicly being shown to be buddies? I wonder if the word has come down... "Show a united front". Outside of the potential for the PA taking the complaint to court, might this be slowing down? That Red Bull seem to be digging in their heels on this?

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Quite simply, someone made a complaint, it was investigated thoroughly (including interviews with 3rd parties) and dismissed - meaning that the investigation has found no evidence to support the complaint.

The complaint being dismissed does not mean there was no evidence to support the claim.

'Post hoc ergo propter hoc, is an informal fallacy that states that because an event followed another, it was caused by it. Correlation appears to suggest causality, but sometimes it's not the case.

In the Horner situation, the complaint was dismissed after the board received the KC's report. But that is not necessarily the same as the report being crucial in that decision.'

[GTRMagic]

Horner to be dumped before Australia… - f1 insider.com

Clickbait rubbish?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Horner to be dumped before Australia… - f1 insider.com

Clickbait rubbish?

The main reason for dismissing Horner now anyway would be because the Irish rock band U2 is getting involved. This is because the brother of the woman at issue in the investigation is the brother-in-law of guitarist 'The Edge'. The band reportedly wants to release a song called: 'Don't be Horny, Be a Christian'. The band's pressure with this with their mega influence would have persuaded the Thai owner of Red Bull to fire Horner after all.