LMP2 Manufacturers and Engine Suppliers

[tigas]

Originally Posted by CTD

This is not only in Finland, but in the whole Scandinavia, and probably a lot more contries. (It is called Folkracing in Denmark)

The problem with this solution is that there is a lot of work hours in setting the cars to do endurance runs. In Folkracing this is not the case, the cars just needs to run for a few laps and then that is it.
If you are constantly switching cars you will never get the right feel with how that chassis is working, leaving the LMP2 as a mess.
Also it is very fan friendly. Fans of the WEC is often more or atleast equally passionate about the cars as the teams and drivers. If the teams keep changing cars the fans will get confused. Imagine all the paint work needed to be done to every single panel.
Building af Folkracer is also a lot faster than building a LMP2 car, so if another team decides to buy your car, you will have to wait several months before you can get a new one made and ready.

In the end, money still talks. The team with the biggest budget won't care about the Cost-cap and just accept the loss made each time a car is sold, and buy a new one. This is an issue in Folkracing in Denmark, where the richer drivers keep building cars that are more expensive that the selling price, and this way wins the championship (albeit at a higher price).

So sadly, your simple, easy idea, doesn't work .

But welcome to the forum!, hope you will stick around, and keep up the out of the box thinking. Even though it might not be possible and flawed, it is always good to have creative thinking!

Thank you very much for the welcome, I've been a lurker (just reading) for some time and just wanted to let this idea hang in here. I was just starting to get interested in endurance racing when "Truth in 24" came out, so I was hooked and that same year I spent Saturday night wide awake in my sofa watching a full LH24h for the first time. That same night I found TenTenths...

I could also see lots of difficulties with this scheme due to the complexity of LMP2's chassis and the amount of effort to tune them up. Also, I'm sure that every team knows their chassis like their son, with it's foibles, it's personality, etc.

And, I've read and rooted extensively for the Dome partnerships in my day, especially with Pescarolo, so I understand about being emotionally invested in a team+chassis combination...

Still, that's why I thought of only allowing this during month-long breaks in the WEC. As for people spending to be faster, I would say "let them" - if people keep buying their "ultra-cars", sooner or later everyone else will have as good a car as the rich guy and then talent will speak...

[Deleted]

This is so totally not Oreca speaking here.

Originally Posted by Not Hugues de Chaunac in disguise

“The fact is that the FIA, ACO and IMSA are going in the right direction because everyone knows that something must be done. -- Uniting Europe and the U.S. is a good thing because the business model needs to be clearer. Having a four-year program… should slightly increase the selling price of the car. Teams prefer quality. Limiting it to four [manufacturers] goes in the right direction with an interesting idea to have an American manufacturer in the loop. It’s necessary that teams amortize the equipment over four years.

-- It’s imperative that teams can run on both sides of the Atlantic. -- The [spec] engine is a reduction in costs, as is the single tire supplier. The Americans could have a very specific aero kit. You have to give teams a chance to fight at the top level with the support of a manufacturer.

It takes a solid car that does more miles by increasing the mileage between rebuilds. If the announcement of the new regulations comes this summer, it will allow manufacturers to structure and review the business format. We must plan for the future. Manufacturers [currently] lose money with the sale of cars.”

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/p...manufacturers/

[TF110]

Strakka Dome's new livery, eye pleasing to say the least

[Mike E]

From that S365 story:

'“When a lot of people talk about change, a lot of people get upset about it. I kind of like [the proposal] in a way because sometimes the racing world gets a little stale,” said an undisclosed U.S. manufacturer. “I like the change but we like building new cars. I’m excited about the direction of the regulations.'

Strange comment. Limiting possible constructors and mandating a spec engine is way to prevent things getting stale?

What a dog's breakfast this all is.

[chernaudi]

Cheap way for Riley or Coyote to build a LMP2 car, I suppose...

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Mike E

From that S365 story:

'“When a lot of people talk about change, a lot of people get upset about it. I kind of like [the proposal] in a way because sometimes the racing world gets a little stale,” said an undisclosed U.S. manufacturer. “I like the change but we like building new cars. I’m excited about the direction of the regulations.'

Strange comment. Limiting possible constructors and mandating a spec engine is way to prevent things getting stale?

What a dog's breakfast this all is.

I also like how that person says how they like building new cars. Even though they were always going to be able to build new cars, now just in much more restricted form. It also means that whoever is saying that has pretty much already won the bidding war for their US slot.

[Rcz]

This makes me sad.

I'm a fan to all forms of racing, NASCAR, open wheel, ect.

I enjoyed watching both Alms and Grand am.

But I started like the ALMS a bit more because since I already followed NASCAR. I didn't want to watch two series where the philosophy is Drivers are the stars. I wanted to watch a racing series where the Cars are the stars.

For TUSC, I like the series but it needs improvements. What it needs the most is a new headline class.

Like GTP or LMP1 cars, something where some kid will put a poster up on their wall because it looks badass.
I'm mean think about it, would they put a gen 1&2 DP or a PC car up there. Hell no.

These stupid P2 rules coming out 2017 are going to be the top class?

No!

This series should not be some feeder series to the WEC like the ELMS or the AsLMS.

I rather have this stupid clown racing that we currently have with current p2, Dp , delta wing set up.

Perhaps, keeping the current P2 rules or making GT as the top class isn't a bad idea, I don't know. If it requires breaking away from ACO Le Mans link, then fine.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by Rcz

Like GTP or LMP1 cars, something where some kid will put a poster up on their wall because it looks badass. I'm mean think about it, would they put a gen 1&2 DP or a PC car up there. Hell no.

Not such a tough concept, you'd think ... yet it is one that the Rolex Series resisted for 15 years, and TUSC ignores now.

Originally Posted by Rcz

These stupid P2 rules coming out 2017 are going to be the top class?

This series should not be some feeder series to the WEC like the ELMS or the AsLMS.

I rather have this stupid clown racing that we currently have with current p2, Dp , delta wing set up.

Three good points---particularly the second I am not sure TUSC can make enough money as an ELMS clone---it is the top-tier North American series, and its potential fan base knows AsLMS and ELMS are Not top-tier.

Originally Posted by Rcz

Perhaps, keeping the current P2 rules or making GT as the top class isn't a bad idea, I don't know. If it requires breaking away from ACO Le Mans link, then fine.

Probelm is, TUSC spent the last three years froging that link They seem to think the way to monetize the "Le Mans" image is Not to run the same classes, but to kiss the same buttocks.

ALMS had Le Mans legitimacy because it had the cars and the rules Rolex never did because it had substandard cars and rules. Now Jim France has convinced both NASCAR and France that TUSC should use the worst rules and also the second-rate cars ... which should be even more second-rate

I think the FIA listened because the France family sold the idea of lower cost so well, and WEC doesn't need two expensive classes.

TUSC needs one class where the cars matter, though. The Rolex Series proved that low-budget cars (not that they were really much cheaper) equals low income in a North American sports car series.

What I see here is Jim France et al saying, "We're the only show in town, now, boys---this time they'll Have to watch."

Hope they go broke fast.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by TF110

Strakka Dome's new livery, eye pleasing to say the least

It would be better if Strakka move up to LMP1 'cause it's pointless for them competing in LMP2. Nice livery by the way!

Honestly, let the current LMP2 class be the new LMP1-L class.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

It would be better if Strakka move up to LMP1 'cause it's pointless for them competing in LMP2. Nice livery by the way!

It's not pointless for Strakka Racing (they were always handicapped in P1 with their proam lineup), but of course Dome will have to look for LMP1 or even LMP3 if they still want to be on the grid when the spec rules are enforced.

Somebody on Autosport forums was mocking their 2015 chances because they were running Mics instead of Dunlops like all in the series & most at LM... which makes no sense. Michelin's LMP2 tires have always been good, it's just the way the market has divided. But oh well, in two years time no need to discuss about that either with the spec tires! Bloody hell...

[MagVanisher]

LMP3 would be a great prospect for Dome, unless that said class turned into an Oreca Challenge as well!

While LMP1 would be a long shot for both them and Strakka, I think Dome is busy making DTM chassis tubs for Super GT ever since they stepped down from racing.

[Deleted]

The issue with LMP3 is that all you can run at Sarthe is the Test Day (and even then it's subject to available space). And I think Dome primarly wants Le Mans presence

[isynge]

First official casualty of the new approach, Tiga calling a halt. Okay it was probably never going to win very much, but it could have added to the richness of the grid and provided somewhere for new and creative engineers to cut their teeth.

Well done ACO and FIA, well done.

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/le-...is-en-suspens/

[MagVanisher]

Sucks that Tiga's return got cut short, even though their car is basically obsolete due to not having a roof. Maybe they could strive in LMP3 or CN then...

[Deleted]

But this time, the Orcs win.

Or Orecas.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

LMP3 would be a great prospect for Dome, unless that said class turned into an Oreca Challenge as well!

While LMP1 would be a long shot for both them and Strakka, I think Dome is busy making DTM chassis tubs for Super GT ever since they stepped down from racing.

Dome doesn't do the Super GT GT500 cars. They do the mother chassis in gt300.

[Richard C]

Just what we need... Fewer people wanting (or being able) to build race cars. Less people involved in this sport the better. Especially given the massive growth in the sport. Too many sponsors, so many fans. The herd needs to be thinned.

(This is sarcasm if you can't tell)

2017 proposed LMP2 rules. What a mess. Just as things started to look good the sport decides to put a gun in its mouth and pull the trigger.

Richard

[Mal]

It seems to me that Hughes de Chaunac is now controlling the ACO.

[chernaudi]

Oreca and Onroak/OAK are the main beneficiaries here, and both are French organizations. And the ACO are French and the FIA is French-based and has a French national as President.

Anyone see a connection?

[Mike E]

Any news on the engine builder? All I have heard is VW Group expressing an interest in bidding for it (don't remember where I heard that). They could badge that as Audi, Bentley, Lambo etc.
Presumably Gibson, Judd and AER would be interested. And maybe the likes of Cosworth?

[Ephaeton]

The Daytona meeting seems to have successfully instilled IMSA "best practices" WRT handling the series entrants and fans (i.e., **** them off) into FIA WEC.

I wish the above could've been said in jest.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Any news on the engine builder? All I have heard is VW Group expressing an interest in bidding for it (don't remember where I heard that). They could badge that as Audi, Bentley, Lambo etc.
Presumably Gibson, Judd and AER would be interested. And maybe the likes of Cosworth?

If VAG gets the bid over Nissan, I would be very surprised.
I think that Renault or PSA group will have a better shot at it than VAG.

However, somehow I see VW getting those badged engines, if they do launch a bid. It would make sense to have Porsche and Audi in LMP1 and VW in LMP2
Bentley or Lamborghini would be suited as being a lower class than Audi and Porsche.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by CTD

If VAG gets the bid over Nissan, I would be very surprised.
I think that Renault or PSA group will have a better shot at it than VAG.

However, somehow I see VW getting those badged engines, if they do launch a bid. It would make sense to have Porsche and Audi in LMP1 and VW in LMP2
Bentley or Lamborghini would be suited as being a lower class than Audi and Porsche.

Based on the above mentioned French bias I would think that the Nissan engine will be rebadged as Renault and then they will be guaranteed the contract

[TF110]

Whats next? Renault Alpine R.S. 01's as a standard GTE-AM? This isnt the 'French Connection', its a world championship.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

Whats next? Renault Alpine R.S. 01's as a standard GTE-AM?

While obviously a joke and more spec classes be lame, at least that would make the class worthy of having of having it's own class (because of, you know, having cars built to different regs) instead of current needless sub trophy and 'everybody needs to win' catering mentality