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21 Feb 2010, 05:26 (Ref:2637452) | #851 | |
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Stock standard FG utes look strange and ugly rear of the cab.
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21 Feb 2010, 06:53 (Ref:2637465) | #852 | ||
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The rear was slightly "modified" also after practice when Elsegood had a minor touch with the tyre wall. The tubs tend top pop right above the wheeel arches.
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23 Feb 2010, 02:51 (Ref:2638767) | #853 | |
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Doesn't the amount of boost they are allowed to run equal what they have as standard road cars ie Evo X must have more boost standard than an Evo IX or Subaru.
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23 Feb 2010, 09:52 (Ref:2638909) | #854 | ||
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Looks like an XA/XB/XC 'SuperBird' with 5 1/2" standard rims !!!!!! |
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24 Feb 2010, 02:59 (Ref:2639477) | #855 | ||
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After yet another miniscule spectator attendance - two men and a dog, and the dog was only there to keep the men in, as the late Frank Gardner used to say - for a 'production touring' race, it's high time that the organisers realised that high-performance cars like Evos, BMWs etc. will never draw a crowd.
The race in its current form is just an ego trip for wealthy amateur racers who put talented co-drivers in their high-performance cars to make themselves look good. Production touring car racing should be for mass-produced (ie. at least 10,000 registered in the preceding year; possibly pro-rata for six months to allow for recent releases) 'base' models (eg. Commodore Omegas and Falcon XTs). Then it could be promoted as a real 'showroom showdown', just like the Phillip Island/Bathurst 500-mile races in the early-1960s. Properly organised and promoted, it would have to be more successful than the current race - and eventually maybe even rival the 1000km V8 Supercar event! Otherwise it's only a matter of time until Bathurst Council decides that the economic return, which can't be very big, doesn't justify the noise and inconvenience to the residents who live near the circuit. |
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24 Feb 2010, 03:16 (Ref:2639482) | #856 | ||
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24 Feb 2010, 03:41 (Ref:2639485) | #857 | |||
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Track hire, full restaurants, catering, accomodation, transport, contract work etc etc...I think Bathurst and its council do very nicely out of the 12 hour thanks very much. |
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24 Feb 2010, 03:51 (Ref:2639490) | #858 | ||
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The "Morris Dancer" Production formula was actually in place for the Australian championship from 1990 to 1994.It was reasonably successful at the time but no more than the current formula.Any Commodore /Falcon formula is always going to look like a poor cousin of V8 Supercars while doing nothing to interest the numbers of motoring people who see the big Australian cars as dinosaurs for knuckle draggers.The 12 Hour race is basically competitor funded and future commercial growth is more likely to come as a result of TV coverage than spectators at the track whilever the race has a start time before 9am.As one of the "2 men and a dog" at the past 4 12 Hours (not to mention the 91-94 versions of the race) I can say that it is one of the most interesting days of the motorsport year in Australiaand I hope it continues for long into the future with the current eligibility list philosophy (give or take the turbo boost rules).
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24 Feb 2010, 04:00 (Ref:2639495) | #859 | |
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With the weather conditions prevailing that weekend any sporting event would only attract "2 men and a dog".
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24 Feb 2010, 05:36 (Ref:2639515) | #860 | ||
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I'm just enough of a snob to hope it never attracts the V8SC crowd. Maybe as many people, but certainly not THAT crowd.
Personaly I think the regs are about right, but I'm not sure if the "Invitation" class is a good feature. The Armstrong/Gallagher/Hardie etc era did include the higher performance cars of thier era. A 220S Merc in those days was looked upon as very exotic"and a Studebaker Lark was virtually police only equipment. What the early races had was a "class by price" system. These days perhaps economy and price could be looked at in setting classes to make it more showroom relevant. What the EvoX turbo episode would seem to indicate is the need for much closer examination of homologation papers to rule out anomolies. This man and his dog missed out this year but I'll be hard to keep away next year. Meanwhile the future of the event is very much in the hands of the cut and edit people at Ch7 who are putting together the 3hr Highlight package. |
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24 Feb 2010, 05:55 (Ref:2639518) | #861 | ||
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I think we've already seen the future Tony.
The future is live web streaming for niche interest events such as these... |
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24 Feb 2010, 08:40 (Ref:2639550) | #862 | ||
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And live streaming for the Shannons Nationals rounds all through 2010 too!
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24 Feb 2010, 16:33 (Ref:2639801) | #863 | |||
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A 'headline' event must attract significant public interest (ie. a decent raceday crowd and 'live' free-to-air TV coverage) to survive more than a few years. No business worth the name will fork out thousands of sponsorship dollars for a race that's watched by just a few hundred paying spectators, several thousand online streaming viewers (many of whom probably don’t live in the sponsors' target market locations), and maybe 10-20,000 viewers of the delayed TV highlights package. I understand, from a reliable source, that most of the 'sponsorship' of at least one Bathurst 12-Hour outright contender comprised contra deals and favours for the car owner's business suppliers. Hardly a dollar changed hands. Race promoters need lots of 'bums on seats' to pay the considerable expenses involved in running the event and to show sponsors that their expensive signs are being seen by many potential customers – not just farm animals. Local business income from teams, officials and other race visitors aren't enough for the Bathurst Council, which has the final say on the events held at Mount Panorama, to justify the noise and inconvenience to its constituents. As for the bad weather affecting this year's spectator attendance, the race – like the other recent Bathurst production touring car enduros – has never drawn a decent crowd even in fine weather. If people are interested in an event they'll come - rain, hail or shine. There have been plenty of well-attended motor racing meetings held in appalling weather. The 1969 Calder one-hour production touring car race (in which Bob Jane in an 'uncompetitive' Monaro 350 fitted with Kleber road tyres splashed to victory over Alan Moffat's factory Falcon GT) and the 1974 Hardie-Ferodo 1000 (in which 'co-driver' Kevin Bartlett made John Goss look much better than he was) spring to mind. History lesson: The high-end imported cars that competed in the early Armstrong/Gallagher 500s at Phillip Island/Bathurst spelt the demise of those races as true 'showroom showdowns' for average car-buyers. 'Bathurst specials' took over until the 1972 'Supercar' controversy, which effectively killed Series Production Touring Car racing for almost 20 years. The 1980s Production Touring Car rules, which permitted sporty cars like the Mazda RX7 and Commore VL turbo, never attracted a worthwhile public following. It wasn't until the 1990 Production Touring Car formula, which was designed around 6-cylinder Commodores and Falcons, that real 'Series Production' touring car racing reappeared. It had the right ingredients but never took off because the promotion was left to CAMS, which like any government wouldn't know a good marketing concept if it jumped up and bit it on the bum. If CAMS had restricted the category to mass-produced base models all along it would have kept its credibility with the car-buying public - and probably still be around today. But, racing drivers being racing drivers, they just couldn't leave well enough alone. Production touring car racing must have classes, but they should be based on the car industry's recognised size-based categories (ie. light, small, medium and large) and not purchase prices. Car buyers tend to consider size before price. The fact remains that races dominated by Porsches, Audis, BMWs, Evos and the like have never been – and will never be – popular with Australian motorsport fans. Group A and Super Touring both flopped for that very reason. There's room for a 'high-performance' production touring car category, but it should be for mass-produced variants (eg. like turbo 6-cylinder or V8 XT Falcons, and Commodore SS V8), not tiny-volume ones like Evos, Stis and 335is. These cars should race separately from the base models because they appeal to a different market. Motorsport has a place for limited edition semi-exotic production touring cars. It’s called club racing. If the Bathurst 12-Hour continues to allow high-performance cars to compete then history will repeat itself - maybe not next year, but within a couple of years at the most. The promoters are dreaming if they think the race will ever be popular in its current format. Last edited by Morris Dancer; 24 Feb 2010 at 16:43. |
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24 Feb 2010, 20:49 (Ref:2639964) | #864 | ||
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The organisers have done well by having a race that allows different makes to compete and I will support that. i dont want this event to turn into a Holden versus Ford race like some do. |
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24 Feb 2010, 22:25 (Ref:2640039) | #865 | ||
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24 Feb 2010, 22:56 (Ref:2640056) | #866 | ||
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Bro...the 90's Prod car racing with only the Fords/Holdens & a Camry from memory were not well supported by spectators or competitors alike...it was better supported in the 80's when the Rx-7, Starion, Cordia, BMW & a Rover were running around (good quality drivers too).
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25 Feb 2010, 00:47 (Ref:2640109) | #867 | |
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Hi guys, I'm from the Bathurst SES and am just wondering if many people got some good photos of the tree that fell on the track. If anyone has any they'd like to share, could you email me at davidm@davidm.com.au?
Don't worry, they won't be used for promotion etc unless you provide permission. Thanks |
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25 Feb 2010, 00:49 (Ref:2640111) | #868 | ||
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Morris Dancer if you want production touring car racing to reflect the market it is time to get away from this Commodore/Falcon fixation
In January of this ear 74864 vehicles were sold in Australia of which only 3241 were Commodores and 2318 Falcons. Together the 2 of them made up just 7.4% of the Australian market. In fact they accounted for around one third of Holden and Ford sales. Some top 10 figures by Model: Commodore 3241 Mazda3 3223 Hilux 2997 Corolla 2711 Falcon 2318 Cruze 2218 Hyundai I30 2116 Hyundai Getz 1717 Lancer 1588 Yaris 1562 By Marque: Toyota 14564 Holden 10468 Ford 6730 Mazda 6658 Hyundai 6208 Nissan 4144 Mitsubishi 4040 Subaru 3260 Honda 3006 VW 2337 By Country of Manufacture: Japan 26311 Korea 13130 Thailand 10777 Australia 9741 The Mitsu Evo is just as legitimate as the performance variant of a mass selling model as the HSV or FPV models. Same goes for the WRX. BMW while not in the top 10 are certainly a big part of the market as are VAG with VW/Audi/Skoda. I would have a guess that there are probably more road registered 335i BMWs in Australia than there are R8Clubsport waggons. The car buying public, particularly in the enthusiast segment most likely to be influence4d by racing, is buying a whole range of cars. A Showroom showdown should reflect that wide variety. When we talk production touring please let's concentrate on getting more manufacturers and importers involved, not trying to limit it to another Taxifest. Last edited by Oldtony; 25 Feb 2010 at 00:52. Reason: highlight segments |
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25 Feb 2010, 05:15 (Ref:2640140) | #869 | |||
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Every indication is that they will return next year. That stability will in turn give the event a better base on which to market itself, draw more people through the gate and on TV and offer more value to the sponsor who will then ideally re-sign again allowing the event to get an even better base.... and so on.. Another example is the GT3 Cup Challenge. They recently signed Mission foods as a presenting sponsor. This deal was signed with the knowledge that attendance at GT3 Cup Challenge (Shannons Nationals) rounds was not 'substantial' (a few thousand per round) and that the main push of the exposure terms of the deal come via value-for-money Television, Public and Media releations and not from having events where 50,000 people turn up to watch. If this is what they wanted they would go the V8s and be paying about five to ten times as much. And yet they see value in doing what they are doing and I can tell you 100% that they will get bang for their buck. My point is that it does not take a big crowd at the circuit to sell sponsorship. Sure, it doesn't help, but it's not the be-all and end all. Creative people will find ways of offering value in other departments. Sponsorship these days is about offering a legitimate B2B return on investmenet as much as it is delivering big crowds and TV ratings. Sure, they go hand in hand, but it's not the be all and end all as you suggest. Your point that 'most of the 'sponsorship' of at least one Bathurst 12-Hour outright contender comprised contra deals and favours for the car owner's business suppliers. Hardly a dollar changed hands.' is a fair observation but it should not a commentary on the event itself. How does this support your argument that the event will not succeed in it's current state? I can list 30 combinations in that race that were funded by pay drivers, contra sponsorship, or enthuaiast owners chipping in. That's the essence of production car racing and it's (relative) affordability allows this to occur. I would guess that 80% of the funding for Garry Holt's BMW comes from Holty himself or his business, Eastern Creek Karts. I'm sure he would love a major sponsor and is trying all the time to get one. But if he choses to run self-funded, how does that change the event? This occurs in all categories around the world, including Formula one. And yet, on the flipside, you have TMR announcing a major deal with a significant corporate presence in Pedigree. Companies like that don't sponsor the event or a car in it just for kicks - they obviously saw that they could get return from the various aspects involved in the event and the good TV on seven. So it goes both ways. It is a fact that in this day and age, events like the 12-hour are unlikely to ever come close to reaching 'big' crowds like V8SC. The market is too crowded and the sporting landscape too busy and competitive. What it does attract are hardcore fans and those - like people who have posted here - who are keen to see something other than two-make V8 racing. It is with longevity and solid and creative promotion that will see this base grow and in time, more people will come. But events like this have a unique opportunity to be creative in what they do to gain exposure - the live steaming is an ideal example. The bottom line is this: With solid (financial + Operational) management - which I think the event has - and some outside the box marketing and selling there is no reason this event won't be around for another 20 years. Oh yes - I hope they don't stuff about too much with regs. I, for one, would prefer this event to remain GT-car free. The focus needs to be on getting a wider variety of outright-competitive and class cars in the race, not making it more expensive and 'unobtainable' to people on the street. To end - I'm glad people like Morris Dancer can offer their opinion, whether I or others agree or not. It's great that the event is followed enough to allow people to have a discussion about it's future. Keep it up and may it grow! Last edited by Richard Craill; 25 Feb 2010 at 05:27. |
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25 Feb 2010, 06:03 (Ref:2640145) | #870 | ||||
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25 Feb 2010, 06:32 (Ref:2640151) | #871 | |
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From memory the total amount of viewers who logged into the online streaming of the event was 22000, and in the early evening peaked at 2000 concurrent viewers. (thats higher then some f1 streams viewed in the oceania region)
I was at the event this year and i can say from my experience as a spectator that the weather was atrocious. We narrowly got home prior to rivers flash flooding on our return trip. It poured throughout the day and the previous nights non stop rain had already turned the place into a mud hole. I can tell you that we very seriously considered not attending the event due to the rain and probably only attended thanks to my positive experience from last years event. Despite the weather we didnt regret the decision!. Can anyone tell me of a bathurst event in the recent decade that has come anywhere near getting v8supercar attendences? I am simply not aware of it ever occuring. Even the Bathurst 24 hr races got bagged out for their low attendence rate despite the potential of the event and its competitors. I think anyone who has attended motorsport in australia in the recent decades will tell you that v8supercars is the only australian based circuit category that gets large attendences. From our experience of looking for accomodation i can tell you that the local economy was obviously benefiting from the event with most reasonably priced accomodation sold out. The families, friends, and support crews of the teams from every category that raced over the weekend alone would have made a large contribution to the local economy. Your not talking about closing a major road and disrupting local businesses either. At the moment i love the bathurst 12 hour race as it is. I think it would definately benefit from a number of factory efforts with more famous drivers in the mix, but otherwise anyone who has actually attended and can judge it off that experience not a stripped down sterile 3 hr coverage package will tell you that it is a fantastic race. The production cars you see racing are representive of their show room counter part. There was a strong representation of profesionally prepaired cars in most of the classes in the field. There were some very well known "big gun" drivers racing with a very diverse mix of genuinely talented amateurs, up and comers, veterans etc as well as the usual gentlemen drivers. The events secured its future for next year as far as i understand, and ill be making another trip up. Bare in mind that we travelled 3 hours each way in rubbish weather to attend the race so that in itself is a indication of how good it is if we are willing to do it all again. |
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26 Feb 2010, 01:29 (Ref:2640655) | #872 | |||
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A similar thing exists now where I don't think they should allow 'special' versions of Evo's, STi's etc. A small correction re the ~1992 Grp E cars, the Ford was a Falcon SS also, which just snuck in a couple of months before the XR6 was launched. Something I would note about the 12Hr race is that unless you follow motorsport in the specialist media (which is only a small % of the population) you probably don't even know it is on. I also think it is showing a pretty healthy path with higher-profile entries/drivers coming on board and has every chance to continue to develop into a proper event. There is a national championship for the category too, so it is beyond club racing. I don't think they can separate the >$60k cars from the <$60k (to arbitrarily choose a split point), all are needed to run the event and all are appropriate in my view. I would be happy with either the current situation or perhaps allow in the M3/C63/RS4/ISF types. Some people follow (and race) the car they drive, some follow an aspirational car. |
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26 Feb 2010, 02:58 (Ref:2640671) | #873 | |||||
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26 Feb 2010, 03:02 (Ref:2640673) | #874 | ||
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26 Feb 2010, 07:04 (Ref:2640732) | #875 | ||
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This qoute from the latest press release on the Bathurst 12 hr site confirms the figures. Mr O’Brien said that while a three day attendance of almost 18,000 endured uncomfortable weather conditions at Mount Panorama, more than 20,000 around the world followed the race via a successful first-time internet telecast. |
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