TVR Griffiths 200/400 and their Chassis Numbers

[terence]

So, the two 200s that were entered for the Brands race in 65 dont mean much,or indeed the fact thhat OUU started its life as a 200 bodied car?

[Heightswitch]

Originally Posted by terence bower

So, the two 200s that were entered for the Brands race in 65 dont mean much,or indeed the fact thhat OUU started its life as a 200 bodied car?

Its all a farce Terry. But alas not really surprising where the Fia are concerned it seems.

Old cars running in the spirit of the period should be welcomed but again its generally down to money spoiling a race for essentially a tin cup!! I think some forget what club racing is about!!

The EH Paul car is documented to have ran with rear discs at one point...now imagine the Fia getting there heads around that one!!!

Bye the way my non original, non std non Fia griffy was finished and managed 8 laps under its own steam at anglesey before x-mas.....OOPS!!







Happily just new shells needed and its all going back together

[FISCracer]

Originally Posted by terence bower

So, the two 200s that were entered for the Brands race in 65 dont mean much,or indeed the fact thhat OUU started its life as a 200 bodied car?

Terry the Redex race at Brands on 30th Aug 1965 was not an international event and so doesn't count. The event which shows Griffs were run in period in FIA sanctioned events is Aspern, Austria on 17 Oct 1965 with two cars driven by Karger and Simpson. As far as I know there are no pictures of the cars at this event.The FIA position is crackers but it is based on the homolgation papers created by G Marshall which show a Kamm tail rear end. I thought from a post somewhere from Jeremy H that cars with different bodywork but identical underneath were acceptable but clearly that does not seem to apply............ So you can import an identity and create a 'modsports' car with no original parts, which is acceptable for HTP but an original 200 with original body and chassis is not. No wonder Jelli is not going FIA.I dont know about John Shipman's car but Sean's car is a re-bodied 200 - no 54

[rbs]

Was the Gerry Marshal car the one that became David Plumsteads Mongoose? This re appeared a few seasons ago in HSCC events driven by Steve Smith, he then sold it to a Mike Wroe but I have lost track of it now.

[flatinfourth]

Originally Posted by Heightswitch

Jason and Louise Kennedy may be looking in and I know they post on here. they have a lovely original bodied Griff 200. I don't know if they have ever bothered with papers for it or not??

Again I think it is just the std bodied grantura type cars with the beetle back rear which have been penalised the most? The std 400 cars are not affected due to the original homologation docs.

Will the masters series not allow you to run with dispensation or is it a fully sanctioned Fia championship??

N.

I Looked after Jason and Louises Griffith 200 for several years after being intoduced to them and their car at a track day. In time i learned that besides being a pretty decent driver, especially in the wet, Louise is a very effective researcher, taking considerable time to examine Griffiths before they finally bought that car. In that process i know she uncovered a few 'interesting' things about certain other cars along the way, but that car was sought out as it was a rather nice, honest car. I'm quite sure that it is still a mighty little car on track, and an absolutely blistering road car, i will never forget the look on the editor of Evo magazine's face when i took him out in it for a feature!

Some of the cars I have seen at historic meetings since they bought theirs appear to be barely disguised modsports racers with oversize arches, bonded screens etc, and are a complete departure from the road car based racers that are in the true spirit of the regulations.

[terence]

Not too sure on Mikes car,did lots of work for Mike and the previous owner(modified the wheel arches)but dont tell anyone! We ran mongoose for about three years as far as I know he still owns it. Dont care about the international side of brands, only the fact of proof that the 200 was about in period and being raced.OUU started life as the 200 type body, got stuffed by the first owner and went back to Blackpool for repairsGM talked them into into the body change,this took two years to complete! After Gerrys ownership,it eventually went to Don Law who bought it for Justin to raceHad a long chat with Don about it,it was he who fitted the rear roll hoop etc etc.However, my point is that yes,there wer raced in period the ,200 version that is. But what a ridiculous situation for a motoring club to have created!!!!

[terence]

Originally Posted by flatinfourth

I Looked after Jason and Louises Griffith 200 for several years after being intoduced to them and their car at a track day. In time i learned that besides being a pretty decent driver, especially in the wet, Louise is a very effective researcher, taking considerable time to examine Griffiths before they finally bought that car. In that process i know she uncovered a few 'interesting' things about certain other cars along the way, but that car was sought out as it was a rather nice, honest car. I'm quite sure that it is still a mighty little car on track, and an absolutely blistering road car, i will never forget the look on the editor of Evo magazine's face when i took him out in it for a feature!

Some of the cars I have seen at historic meetings since they bought theirs appear to be barely disguised modsports racers with oversize arches, bonded screens etc, and are a complete departure from the road car based racers that are in the true spirit of the regulations.

Ask Louise about the initial cooling problems.

[flatinfourth]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Ask Louise about the initial cooling problems.

Oh I remember the cooling problems only too well, it took a lot of blood sweat and tears to turn the car from one that fried its engine into one that could be driven in traffic.

[terence]

Yes,it certainly did.

[richard tyzack]

Originally Posted by FISCracer

Terry the Redex race at Brands on 30th Aug 1965 was not an international event and so doesn't count. The event which shows Griffs were run in period in FIA sanctioned events is Aspern, Austria on 17 Oct 1965 with two cars driven by Karger and Simpson. As far as I know there are no pictures of the cars at this event.The FIA position is crackers but it is based on the homolgation papers created by G Marshall which show a Kamm tail rear end. I thought from a post somewhere from Jeremy H that cars with different bodywork but identical underneath were acceptable but clearly that does not seem to apply............ So you can import an identity and create a 'modsports' car with no original parts, which is acceptable for HTP but an original 200 with original body and chassis is not. No wonder Jelli is not going FIA.I dont know about John Shipman's car but Sean's car is a re-bodied 200 - no 54

You are correct, the only record of competing in an International meeting is the one you mention, so it looks like I am sunk, however you mention a post from jeremy H that might allow cars with a different body that are to period under the skin to compete, can you help me find this as it may be an opportunity.

[1800TISA]

Originally Posted by FISCracer

Terry the Redex race at Brands on 30th Aug 1965 was not an international event and so doesn't count. The event which shows Griffs were run in period in FIA sanctioned events is Aspern, Austria on 17 Oct 1965 with two cars driven by Karger and Simpson. As far as I know there are no pictures of the cars at this event.The FIA position is crackers but it is based on the homolgation papers created by G Marshall which show a Kamm tail rear end. I thought from a post somewhere from Jeremy H that cars with different bodywork but identical underneath were acceptable but clearly that does not seem to apply............ So you can import an identity and create a 'modsports' car with no original parts, which is acceptable for HTP but an original 200 with original body and chassis is not. No wonder Jelli is not going FIA.I dont know about John Shipman's car but Sean's car is a re-bodied 200 - no 54

Hi,
there is a great online archive at the technical Museum Wien, Austria. It has coverage of many Austrian racing events, including the Donau-Pokal 17. October 1965 at Wien-Aspern: http://www.technischesmuseum.at/moto...articleid/2406
This archive is just awesome. Starting with pre-war races. You will spend ages researching! Unfortunately it is in German only.

Here are some pictures of the Krager and Simpson TVRs Griffith 200.

I think the reg reads FDU 500C




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Cheers,
Stephan Propsting

[1800TISA]

Originally Posted by richard tyzack

You are correct, the only record of competing in an International meeting is the one you mention, so it looks like I am sunk, however you mention a post from jeremy H that might allow cars with a different body that are to period under the skin to compete, can you help me find this as it may be an opportunity.

Sorry, Richard that my above post only shows cars with 400 bodies. I hope we will find a picture of a 200 sometime. It would be a shame that an original car is not allowed to race but some fancy (or should I say fantasy?) silhouette racers can ...

Cheers, Stephan

[richard tyzack]

Thanks for the correct photos Stephan, it looks like i am sunk unless someone has a photo of the rounded tail in an International event, fingers crossed.

[terence]

Fabulous site Stephan,well done,looks like you have a lot of researching to do Richard,good luck.

Stephan,did you get my last e-mail,RE CHRSN?

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by 1800TISA

Here are some pictures of the Krager and Simpson TVRs Griffith 200.

I think the reg reads FDU 500C

Wow, the pimped up things that are running now don't look a lot like this, do they!!!!

[esper]

Originally Posted by rogerwills

Wow, the pimped up things that are running now don't look a lot like this, do they!!!!

I've got one of those -as in the picture!

[esper]

Here it is!

[terence]

A proper Griff Esper,I take to have fresh HTPs?.Looks really nice.

[tvrrich]

Hi Richard,
I was at the HSCC Silverstone finals this w/end and there were 2 Griff 200's racing, Jason Kennedys in the Historic Roadsports, and John Spiers ex Tachyon racing Green 200 in the Guards trophy race, perhaps that means you could use your car in HSCC ?, worth looking in to there regs i suppose.

[DaveGT6]

Pretty sure it would be eligible for the re-launched Classic K race series with the CSCC too. They are running 5 one hour races in 2014 for one or two drivers with a compulsory pit stop. The first race was at Snetterton this weekend and was a promising start to this series.

[richard tyzack]

Originally Posted by tvrrich

Hi Richard,
I was at the HSCC Silverstone finals this w/end and there were 2 Griff 200's racing, Jason Kennedys in the Historic Roadsports, and John Spiers ex Tachyon racing Green 200 in the Guards trophy race, perhaps that means you could use your car in HSCC ?, worth looking in to there regs i suppose.

Thanks for the thought and i may well do that, does anyone have jason kennedy's contact details? I did once as the kennedys both came here to inspect my car when they first acquired theirs.

[Peter Mallett]

Send a private message to Louise who posts here as LAK.

[apriliadriver]

Richard,
Griffs were numerous in HSCC Historic Road Sports in the 1990s, with 3 or 4 out regularly and winning. In those days, Elans didn't last ... alas, how things have changed !TVRs have been a bit thinner on the ground in the 2000s, but still a v. competitive contender. You can find Tech Regs and Weights (900kg for a Griff) at http://www.hscc.org, scroll down to 'Championships' and then to 'Historic Road Sports'. You will find the links there.

Jason was out in the Kennedy family TVR on Saturday but had an early off-road experience and could not get the engine re-started.
Nick

[richard tyzack]

Dear John
Better late than never, if you are still compiling chassis records of TVR Griffiths then here is another one you may now add to your collection.
I have chassis 200/5/058.
An early round tail 200 series that I bought from Hayes Harris in the USA in about 2001.
The car was a mess with a totally rotten chassis, this we replaced with a Schirle chassis, luckily the bodywork was excellent as was the original engine which even now is on standard bore.
The gearbox was also fine, however we did all the usual suspension mods a la Granada and with FIA papers in hand we raced the car in the FIA GTS series and rallied it with great success in the blue ribband events in Europe.
When all the hooha blew up we changed the car back on to silly herald uprights and bearings etc to comply, this was in 2008, however as no one could find any period history of a 200 series round tail car with standard bodywork my HTP application was refused - twice! at some considerable expense, and i just felt it would be wrong to hack a lovely car to bits and stick on silly modsports bodywork.
Full credit to Nigel Ruben - he has done a fantastic job on the modsports lookalikes that are now de rigeur in FIA racing, so my dilemma is to let it sit in my garage or race it in club events but not in FIA events.
There you go, my moan is over, there does seem to be a little chink of light at the end of the tunnel, as there is a school of thought that standard cars MAY be elligible some time soon, my fingers are crossed.
Do you know who owns FDU 500C ??
Regards
Richard Tyzack

[John Turner]

Richard,

Many thanks for this; I really must start collating all the info on this thread.

Incidentally, why not race it in club events and enjoy the ambience of such meetings? I do not understand this obsession with papers, particularly when we see that some of those issued with them seem to struggle to show any real provenance and yet there are some great original cars out there that simply cannot get papers because they didn't have any international racing history.