WEC Porsche GTP / Hypercar: factory and customer - Page 368

**joeb** · 12 Jun 2023, 17:11 (Ref:4163395)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ederss7

In 2014 race pace wasn't as good as qualifyng pace, but they managed to take the kead in the final hours. Both cars struggled to finish, though.
This years debut was laughable.

they had reliability issues at Daytona too, i believe in spec parts, but can't remember for sure.

**Adam43** · 13 Jun 2023, 01:52 (Ref:4163459)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcug

Isn't the Porsche 963 the fastest LMDh in a straight line? Clearly quicker than BMW and Caddy, not sure about Honda tho. They will never match straight line speed of LMHs due to no front axle hybrid but at least they have good downforce levels, clearly the quickest hypercar in the Porsche curves. The main concern is IMO reliability, in that aspect that's same kind of shitbox Peugeout is. Pace with current BOP was really good in the opening stages of the race, before all cars started dropping down due to various things happening.

FYI.

Top speed analysis here: https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...55#post4163455

Caddy had the fastest LMDh car at Le Mans, based on Top 100 sample, but it is all super close and next up are two Porsche.

if we look at Sector 3 with the Porsche Curves in it Ferrari wins that battle, but Porsche is impressive and second quickest.
https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...56#post4163456

PhilipR · 13 Jun 2023, 07:50 (Ref:4163487)

What gets to me is Porsche having longest time to develop yet seems to have most of the reliability issues. A bit reminiscence of the Mazda DPI programme, which fair enough the chassis was also serviced by multimatic - a link there?
Yes Acura and Cadillac have experience with DPI and that might have helped, but still Porsche seems to be struggling more at the moment

Was impressed by 2 Cadillac - steady race no major mistakes and without the extra 5-10 secs for oil to up every stop they could have challenged for the lead when the Ryo binned it and the Fer would not start

Gerard C · 13 Jun 2023, 07:52 (Ref:4163488)

As to the drivers I'd like to add that some spared absolutely no effort to keep marshals and mechanics busy… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLeJdBwLHrs From 5'23" and onwards, Rota dance…

tomcug · 13 Jun 2023, 12:27 (Ref:4163511)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

FYI.

Top speed analysis here: https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...55#post4163455

Thanks for a very good analysis Adam, great job as always. Seems my observations were not entirely correct but at least not far from absolute truth

About sector 3, it includes the Porsche curves obviously but also one long straight and second shorter straight so I bet this is where Ferrari gets a big chunk of its speed. Overall I think BOP was really correct, maybe Ferrari slightly too OP but nothing to complain about (someone has to be the quickest).

PhilipR · 13 Jun 2023, 13:59 (Ref:4163531)

https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/ne...erer/10482299/

Interesting words by Lotterer - he seems quite downbeat on the car's potential and comes across as the car not being fast enough irrespective of BOP

S griffin · 13 Jun 2023, 14:15 (Ref:4163533)

Lotterer should know, he's been there and done it for a long time. If he's seeing the car isn't great, you will take his word. They need to find pace or go back to the drawing boards and try a different approach if they are to get back up there in the future. I'm sure they will find a way, they have enough knowhow to do it

Gerard C · 13 Jun 2023, 14:28 (Ref:4163542)

Impossible to know for sure the truth but it seems that it was hard for those Porsche to find a proper balance between the very stiff suspension set-up they have and the tires.
@ MATADOR for your "eyes only". When we say each detail counts, knowing that the Porsche is supposed to have the best air-co system it seems that not all drivers will agree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNlgq65gCGA
Then to 2'15" After that, Roger unperturbed but not too happy…

Matador · 13 Jun 2023, 15:49 (Ref:4163558)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Impossible to know for sure the truth but it seems that it was hard for those Porsche to find a proper balance between the very stiff suspension set-up they have and the tires.
@ MATADOR for your "eyes only". When we say each detail counts, knowing that the Porsche is supposed to have the best air-co system it seems that not all drivers will agree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNlgq65gCGA
Then to 2'15" After that, Roger unperturbed but not too happy…

Reality can be quite foggy sometimes can't it?

**Adam43** · 13 Jun 2023, 16:33 (Ref:4163567)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcug

Thanks for a very good analysis Adam, great job as always. Seems my observations were not entirely correct but at least not far from absolute truth

About sector 3, it includes the Porsche curves obviously but also one long straight and second shorter straight so I bet this is where Ferrari gets a big chunk of its speed. Overall I think BOP was really correct, maybe Ferrari slightly too OP but nothing to complain about (someone has to be the quickest).

The top speed data isn’t that easy to draw too many conclusions from. Other than Ferrari is ahead. The rest is very close.
Glickenhaus is pretty strong and consistent.

But maybe combined with S3 we can infer some things.

I hadn’t noticed the Porsche speed in S3. Good call. Porsche is best LMDh and pretty close to the pace setter Ferrari.
It does show something if only that Ferrari’s speed certainly comes from top speed and the time is gained on the “long starlight round the back” and maybe it is fair to assume that in S3 it comes from the run from Arnage down to Porsche Curves?

Gerard C · 13 Jun 2023, 17:21 (Ref:4163576)

Max speed after Porsche curves is circa 280 kph if I'm right. Have to recheck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matador

Reality can be quite foggy sometimes can't it?

May be was tryin' to see his situation with rose tinted glasses?

Coach Ep · 15 Jun 2023, 12:31 (Ref:4163846)

More porkers on their way!

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...-imsa-by-2024/

**Adam43** · 15 Jun 2023, 22:50 (Ref:4163927)

The battle for 6th-10th places could be quite intense!

Gerard C · 16 Jun 2023, 05:02 (Ref:4163942)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

The battle for 6th-10th places could be quite intense!

Si on aime l'humour au deuxième degré, grace a vous cher Adam, on est servi!

They start with their own cars, then "teams satellite", then Mr Average can buy a race beast from "any dealer" (not true of course!). From a 904 GTS to a 917 several centuries ago, this policy has been doing very well to keep a winning image of the brand.

v8supes · 25 Jun 2023, 16:23 (Ref:4165349)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

More porkers on their way!

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...-imsa-by-2024/

Where are the customer cars from other manufacturers?

Porsche seems much more competitive in IMSA than WEC.

PhilipR · 26 Jun 2023, 07:14 (Ref:4165490)

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8supes

Where are the customer cars from other manufacturers?

Porsche seems much more competitive in IMSA than WEC.

They only race against other LMDHs in IMSA so easier to balance the BOP
Constant BOP changes between races and FCY/Safety car rules that bring the field back together regularly meaning more chances to stay in the fight

S griffin · 26 Jun 2023, 10:29 (Ref:4165529)

Yeah, they seem to have got the BOP right in IMSA. It can be a bit much at times though. But it keeps the competition close, so it justified

tomcug · 26 Jun 2023, 11:08 (Ref:4165533)

Next year they will be closer in the WEC as well, with more actual racing data to help the ACO with BOP. And let's not forget that at Le Mans they were really on pace.

PhilipR · 26 Jun 2023, 11:35 (Ref:4165535)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yeah, they seem to have got the BOP right in IMSA. It can be a bit much at times though. But it keeps the competition close, so it justified

I would not say is right - is easier to BOP cars on same platform and they do make changes after every race - and notice how some cars go from being dominant to mid/end of pack by next race
Also the safety car procedures tends to keep the racing closer meaning it looks more competitive than it actually is. A few times we had big leads erased by late safety cars (this year and during DPI era)

Its different syle of racing between IMSA and WEC - in WEC all race counts as any issues or mistakes will cost in real racing time , in IMSA I tend to detach during mid race as safety cars tend to bring the field back together by the end of the race - but you tend to get more often than not exciting finishes and dash for the win compared to WEC

Coach Ep · 26 Jun 2023, 14:14 (Ref:4165549)

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8supes

Where are the customer cars from other manufacturers?

Porsche seems much more competitive in IMSA than WEC.

Not in the pipeline (yet) it seems. If I were to guess, I'd say Cadillac is the most realistic prospect but it won't be before 2025 the earliest. Bummer.

veeten · 28 Jun 2023, 15:43 (Ref:4165784)

Proton Porsche 963 to race in WeatherTech colors, according to dailysportscar.com.

Enduranceracer · 6 Jul 2023, 01:38 (Ref:4166903)

First actual pic I have seen from Monza.

**Aysedasi** · 6 Jul 2023, 07:40 (Ref:4166923)

Smart!

**joeb** · 7 Jul 2023, 14:52 (Ref:4167074)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Smart!

Very! This car's shape seems to lend itself well to a lot of different liveries!

JT240Z · 7 Jul 2023, 16:08 (Ref:4167087)

That's one of the best renditions of a classic Porsche design in a prototype chassis. The front end looks distinctively 911ish.

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