Future Grands Prix?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage

Considering Tilke's national themed attendant facilities, an airport from him would be brilliant.

Or why not just run at an actual airport? Those huge wide straights into hairpins never fail to provide good racing!

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Do you have any airports in mind chunterer?

How about some of these... My Track Designs ... Airport series

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Or why not just run at an actual airport? Those huge wide straights into hairpins never fail to provide good racing!

Yeah, bring F1 to Cleveland.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

WEC dropped Sao Paulo, not Bahrain.

You are of course correct, my apologies!

[bauble]

To the 'older generation' the loss of Monza is unthinkable, but to a younger one it would be just another F1 circuit, alongside Malaysia, Korea, Abu Dhabi etc.

It will not be long before we see posts expressing concern that the loss of India would be unthinkable.

History 0 points. Money 10 points. A clear winner.

I have long held the view (ie dream) that the European circuits should get together and run their own series, without the aid of BCE.

Monza, Zandvoort, Rouen/Reims, Spa (heavily revised), Oporto, Nordschliefe (don't do German).

Well one can dream.

Bauble 1937

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by bauble

To the 'older generation' the loss of Monza is unthinkable, but to a younger one it would be just another F1 circuit, alongside Malaysia, Korea, Abu Dhabi etc.

I don't think you are giving the new generation of fans credit. My wife is a newcomer to motorsport, but she's already noticed the drastic differences in F1 circuits and is always quick to question me on why some circuits have certain characteristics. When even a newcomer can tell the difference between the modern Silverstone and circuits like China, you know somethings up. Monza, like Montreal or Monaco, is so very clearly old school and of a different generation. Even younger or newer viewers can notice this difference, and I don't think their opinions on the circuits that F1 is using drastically differs from our own.

[Sodemo]

F1 is where the worlds best cars race on the worlds worst circuits.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

F1 is where the worlds best cars race on the worlds worst circuits.

I don't agree with you on that I know there are some dud F1 circuits but I would regard Spa, Suzuka and Monaco as some of the best circuits in the world.
As for the cars I think the current LMP1 machines are a lot more interesting than and innovative in comparison to the current crop of F1 cars. LMP1's are a little slower but not much due to higher weight limit and fuel flow restrictions.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

F1 is where the worlds best cars race on the worlds worst circuits.

I don't believe we have the best cars or the best circuits in F1 any more.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

F1 is where the worlds best cars race on the worlds worst circuits.

A little harsh. I think it's more like, some of the world's best cars race on some of the world's worst circuits.

[Greem]

Off topic, I know, but the statements above raise the repeating, unanswered question: What *is* F1?

The FIA are pretty clear about the direction of (for example) Formula E, the WEC and the World Rally Championship. But in the case of F1... silence.

I have a sneaking suspicion the M. Todt is quietly biding his time, awaiting the chance to step in and save F1 from itself.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Greem

Off topic, I know, but the statements above raise the repeating, unanswered question: What *is* F1?

The FIA are pretty clear about the direction of (for example) Formula E, the WEC and the World Rally Championship. But in the case of F1... silence.

I have a sneaking suspicion the M. Todt is quietly biding his time, awaiting the chance to step in and save F1 from itself.

Is he, though? My opinion, for what it's worth, is that Todt is totally out of his depth dealing with BCE and the egos of the collective of team principles who are all pulling in different directions.

I think that he was in his element at Ferrari acting as a conduit or intermediate between De Monteface and Brawn, and this allowed the team to flourish in those years. But the reality is that, unless the FIA decided to create a parallel world championship completely under the control of the FIA which I think is highly unlikely at this time, then he is powerless to stop BCE acting in the way that he is. Or stop the teams spending as much money as they like, as he has already admitted.

The real shame is that between them, BCE and Mosley rescued the old Formula 1, but then Mosley, possibly in retrospect, allowed BCE to create the monster that is FOM or any of it's other guises. I reiterate what I wrote somewhere on Tenths earlier, I really think that this has just become a game for BCE to see how much money he can squeeze from as many places as he can, not because he, or even CVC, needs it but just because he can. All that he cares about is that he is fêted whenever he makes an appearance at a F1 venue and is treated in a manner more befitting royalty.

[chillibowl]

i agree with you that he views this as a game but im not sure i agree that he does it for better treatment/fluff his ego.

in his personal life he seems like an unassuming person. he doesn't spend on lavish clothes or cars, gave up most of his money to the ex and useless daughters, remarried to career person and not some vapid model, and really doesn't show any excess or flash. actually find it odd when i see him sitting with the idiotically wealthy as he seems like he has very little in common with them.

i think he just like getting the better of others in a deal...which may be worse in some ways even because it makes less sense.

[bella]

i wonder if perhaps like dr palmer, everything he does is in what he perceives to be the best interests of the sport, and from that point of view he's faultless. it's his perception of the best interest of the sport that are skewed and deserving of criticism.

[TheMightyM]

Close. The real danger is that he may perceive or believe that what's in his best interest and what's in the sport's best interest to be one and the same.

[bauble]

I don't think you are giving the new generation of fans credit

I consider there is a difference between 'fans', and 'enthusiasts', and I believe that the mentality is quite different as well.

I am pleased that your wife enjoys the sport, my life would have been so much easier if mine had done the same

Regarding tracks like Monza I'm stuck in a time warp, and unable to move forward, unlike Mr Ecclestone.

Cheers,

Bauble.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i agree with you that he views this as a game but im not sure i agree that he does it for better treatment/fluff his ego.

in his personal life he seems like an unassuming person. he doesn't spend on lavish clothes or cars, gave up most of his money to the ex and useless daughters, remarried to career person and not some vapid model, and really doesn't show any excess or flash. actually find it odd when i see him sitting with the idiotically wealthy as he seems like he has very little in common with them.

i think he just like getting the better of others in a deal...which may be worse in some ways even because it makes less sense.

You should Google BCE; there are loads of hits on there that would actually prove your statement to be incorrect. He has palatial houses all over the place, and runs about in top of the range luxury cars. Apart from that, he has one of the largest collection of race cars which are hidden away in an aircraft hanger at Biggin Hill Aerodrome, one of the airports handling the most private aircraft for the South East of England including London, which just so happens to be owned by one BCE.

BCE does do lavish, make no mistakes. When McLaren, I think it was, introduced their new portable paddock palace, BCE went straight out and commissioned a new transportable HQ for himself as he didn't feel that it was befitting of someone in his position to have an inferior "motorhome" (that is such an understatement - they can easily take between 3 and 5 40 foot trailers to make them appear in the paddocks) to a team.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I don't agree with you on that I know there are some dud F1 circuits but I would regard Spa, Suzuka and Monaco as some of the best circuits in the world.
As for the cars I think the current LMP1 machines are a lot more interesting than and innovative in comparison to the current crop of F1 cars. LMP1's are a little slower but not much due to higher weight limit and fuel flow restrictions.

Well, it was a statement designed to provoke a reaction, however I do partly agree with it. I will concede that there are indeed some good circuits on the F1 calendar, but they are becoming increasingly few and far between. Perhaps in 5 or 10 years time my statement will be more appropriate if the direction of the sport doesn't alter.

Oh and on the cars themselves, the cars (F1) are supposed to be the pinnacle of racing, however I don't even think that is true any more and would agree that LMP1 is where the real interesting stuff is happening at the moment in motorsport.

In a way, I'm glad they open these new soulless F1 venues because it means that they aren't busy ruining a classic venue in order to satisfy Charlie Whiting and the safety brigade. Not that I don't want safety, however I feel they have gone too far in some areas, specifically tarmac run off.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

In a way, I'm glad they open these new soulless F1 venues because it means that they aren't busy ruining a classic venue in order to satisfy Charlie Whiting and the safety brigade. Not that I don't want safety, however I feel they have gone too far in some areas, specifically tarmac run off.

Don't forget that the WSBK/MotoGP folks are also usually involved in significant new track designs because the idea of the circuits is to pull in both F1 and at least one blue riband bike event.

Riders like lots of tarmac; the bike doesn't dig in and flip (unlike with gravel) and they have a far better chance of recovering a mistake than with grass.

You can't lay modern safety features all at the door of F1, you know!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

Close. The real danger is that he may perceive or believe that what's in his best interest and what's in the sport's best interest to be one and the same.

That's an interesting observation and one I'm inclined to agree with. Whenever a situation arises, e.g. the German GP and now Monza, they, in this case the track owners/promoters, are presented as the ones who are being difficult and not wanting to do what's best for F1. It is not surprising, he comes out with comments like this, "They don't have an agreement - a bit like Germany really."

Conversly, if it's all going his way, he comes out with statements like this when talking about Azerbaijan: "Baku? No problem," said Ecclestone. "That's going to be another good race." and when asked if the country's human rights record will be checked, he replied:, "We have. I think everybody seems to be happy. Doesn't seem to be any big problem there..."

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

You should Google BCE; there are loads of hits on there that would actually prove your statement to be incorrect...

no need i'll take your word for it but how much of the houses etc is what he spends on himself or what his family spends on his behalf or no difference?

cant fault him for having lots of race cars though.

but i am just going by what i see, a guy who wears the same basic outfit for the last 20 odd years i have been watching. a hard as nails negotiator for sure but he seems without airs imo.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

You should Google BCE; there are loads of hits on there that would actually prove your statement to be incorrect. He has palatial houses all over the place, and runs about in top of the range luxury cars. Apart from that, he has one of the largest collection of race cars which are hidden away in an aircraft hanger at Biggin Hill Aerodrome, one of the airports handling the most private aircraft for the South East of England including London, which just so happens to be owned by one BCE.

Google isn't aways accurate, but your not the only one to get that wrong...

From the Daily Mail

An earlier version of this article said that Bernie Ecclestone had his own airport at Biggin Hill. We are happy to clarify that while he leases an area of 32 acres on the airport land, the airport is run by Regional Airports Ltd on land leased from the London Borough of Bromley.

BCE with his FOM company are resident in Sapphire House which is on the Airfield Estate.

[Mekola]

The first ever motorsport autodrome that was built for F1 purposes was the Buenos Aires autodrome built by the Argentinian government in 1952, after a plea from Fangio and Froilan Gonzalez. It's a great shame that the Buenos Aires major betrays its history with disregard to that autodrome, mostly when his own family used to have an automotive manufacturer in the 1980s (SEVEL).

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Google isn't aways accurate, but your not the only one to get that wrong...

From the Daily Mail


BCE with his FOM company are resident in Sapphire House which is on the Airfield Estate.

My memory from a little while ago is that there was the strongest possibility that BCE controls that company through nominees. It came up after some investigative journalists tried to unravel his business empire, and I also think that his favourite journalist, Christian Sylt, also confirmed it just last year in an article concerning BCE and a meeting with the teams' principals. I could also be totally wrong!

[bjohnsonsmith]

This is really worth a read.

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/fe...356.1427643335