General Sportscar Chat thread

[Truckosaurus]

I didn't even think about minor single seater races also taking place this weekend

[nobster]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

Ha maybe we need the sportscar veteran criminal thread. Fritz has been charged now.
https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/v...investigation/


Our distinguished list does not stop getting bigger over the years.

Whittington Brothers
John Paul Sr
Randy Lanier
Scott Tucker
Daniel Uckerman
Michael Avenatti
Fritz Von Erd

Others?

Charles Zwolsman sr. known in our country as Charles Z. ( drugs )

[NaBUru38]

Hello GT3 Fan, I regularly publish calendars in this thread.

There's also websites like Racingcalendar.net.

[chernaudi]

I've posted about this in a couple of areas on Facebook, and if mods or admins think this would be better served elsewhere or in its own thread, feel free to split this off, but I've been talking about if it would be a good idea if say IMSA would either upload to YouTube say more ALMS races that they didn't upload prior to 2013, or maybe make them available as a download and such?


I know that it's probably a pipe dream, but I'd love to have the raw broadcast footage (that used to be used to make the old VHS and DVDs back then) that's unedited (the ones uploaded to YouTube seem to have had color edits done to them, and sometimes they're not in the proper aspect ratio), even if they have to be paid purchases.

[broadrun96]

Think the demand for that is FAR lower than the costs to make such things available would be. And not a ton of folks actually work for IMSA, they're not sitting out there with lots of extra time on their hands

[chernaudi]

I have to say that I'm in agreement with those on those groups I posted that in that say that every major racing series should make such things available, because, regardless of how big it might be, there's a demand for it, and they, like me, are willing to actually pay money for it.



Also if NASCAR (who are controlling owners of IMSA) can do something sort of like this with the NASCAR Classics YouTube page (maybe not the paid download model I'd favor, especially for the raw satellite feed footage that I'm speaking of that used to be used at least for the Speed Channel broadcast DVDs, but still better than nothing), why can't or why shouldn't IMSA, or even the ACO for older Le Mans races and older LMS races?


And yes, I know that not a ton of people are able or even willing to watch the whole, uncut races, but the ACO and FIA post whole LM24 events (though the newer ones from recent years).



My point is that there seems to be a demand (IE, I'm not alone), but it seems that there's not enough or people aren't vocal enough for that demand to be answered. I know I myself would pay decent money for such things if made available.

[chernaudi]

And getting back to my last post, I did visit Duke Video's site, and they offer their old Le Mans reviews in a digital format for about 5 British Lbs, or about $6.50 USD at present exchange rates. I'd think that if IMSA adopted such a model of selling downloads of their old races that'd be a fair price, as well as maybe a bit more for the longer races (Sebring, PLM, post-2014 Daytona).

[flatlandsman]

I would guess some of the issue is rights and rights holders. There is scant footage other than home video of any Group C other than the Duke stuff, which is very good. There must be footage out there, but not able to be used. IN rallying Special Stage in the UK and Dirtfish have found a lot of old footage and are in the process of making YT things about it, first DF came out recently but it was trying to be a tv show as Rider is involved rather than simply uploading the footage which is really what people want I think.

In the US a lot of this is probably owned by whoever was the rights holder and they will not make it available.

[chernaudi]

Considering that IMSA released most of the ALMS videos on YouTube before the end of the 2013 season, I do believe that it's safe to say that IMSA and NASCAR Media are the current rights holders, though the ALMS videos page has been basically left to rot (like the Grand Am page) after 2013, and IMSA on their current page only upload an older race (be it ALMS, Grand Am or IMSA GT) occasionally, usually during the off-season.


Though I'm not a fan of the YouTube version of the videos, mostly due to things like color and brightness edits to make them maybe seem like they're HD. For instance, certain red and green colors look really florescent (like sitting next to the Elephant's Foot at Chernobyl for too long florescent) and black/dark grey stuff looks a lot lighter than it should, to the point where the whole video looks sort of hazy at times. I know this because I have footage from old DVDs and other sources that don't exhibit those issues. Not to mention that the 2008 Speed Channel races were squished to 4:3 on YouTube when they were recorded in 16:9.


I do know that beggars can't be too choosy, but I'm of the opinion that if you're gonna do something, either do it right or at least the best you can. And I'm of the opinion that I'd be willing to pay to download such footage of those old races (mostly the 2000-2008 period, of if you prefer, the Audi ALMS era, or even the pre-HD era) if I can get either full/uncut races, or at least their proper/original viewing formats. I also wouldn't be adverse to if they can be upscaled to HD (while retaining original color and aspect ratio), again, provided that it can be done right or well.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I have to say that I'm in agreement with those on those groups I posted that in that say that every major racing series should make such things available, because, regardless of how big it might be, there's a demand for it, and they, like me, are willing to actually pay money for it.



Also if NASCAR (who are controlling owners of IMSA) can do something sort of like this with the NASCAR Classics YouTube page (maybe not the paid download model I'd favor, especially for the raw satellite feed footage that I'm speaking of that used to be used at least for the Speed Channel broadcast DVDs, but still better than nothing), why can't or why shouldn't IMSA, or even the ACO for older Le Mans races and older LMS races?


And yes, I know that not a ton of people are able or even willing to watch the whole, uncut races, but the ACO and FIA post whole LM24 events (though the newer ones from recent years).



My point is that there seems to be a demand (IE, I'm not alone), but it seems that there's not enough or people aren't vocal enough for that demand to be answered. I know I myself would pay decent money for such things if made available.

If it costs them 1k to produce and upload but they make 5 bucks that's not profitable. Hell if they make 5 bucks from 500 users they still wouldn't make up enough to make the position worth filling. And I doubt you could find 500 folks willing to pay anything for older videos. It's a niche of a niche corner of the niche sport of racing, 1% of 1% of 1% isn't worth counting.

[flatlandsman]

For the first on this page we agree.

[chernaudi]

I highly doubt that back in the day IMSA were making money hand over fist when they were retailing the VHS tapes/DVDs back in the day, but they still offered them.



Besides, they already had to digitize the footage to even upload the stuff they did onto YouTube, so that money, time and energy was already spent. And I know, why offer the videos for online download when most of they are already on YouTube? And what of YouTube ad revenue?


One, I'd like for these video to be unedited (namely without the color and brightness edits I mentioned), and they'd be ad free (no YouTube ads for viewing on smart TVs, and issues with Google's ongoing war against ad blockers). And for the YouTube ad revenue, well, all you have to do is watch one or two videos on that subject and YouTube monetization to find out that, one, revenue from that is all over the place (at least offering them for paid download the money they would be getting would be consistent), not to mention that Google and YouTube seem to be doing everything they can to weasel their way out of paying up for monetization of videos.


Not to mention that even with IMSA still keeping the ALMS Videos and Grand Am video pages up as legacy pages, one, IMSA and NASCAR have otherwise left those pages in limbo for over a decade, and secondly, people are on YouTube still uploading footage and stuff the past few years, including stuff that IMSA in theory or even in actuality has available, as either that stuff is missing or people are dissatisfied with how IMSA implemented their uploads. Here I agree with what Gabe Newell said about video games--don't protect your IP by burying it under DRM and such, make a quality product at a good price, and things for the most part will take care of themselves.

[Adam43]

I can’t see it having the market to make it worth putting any level of effort into it.

They might even think it is a good idea. It might be something they want to do, but every new idea they get will get prioritized ahead of it. This happens all the time in any business. There’s a list of good ideas, all of which might make you money, but there is limited resource.

Your best bet is to offer to do it for them. Or give them a load of cash for the rights. If you do that I’ll give you $5 for access to it all.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I highly doubt that back in the day IMSA were making money hand over fist when they were retailing the VHS tapes/DVDs back in the day, but they still offered them.



Besides, they already had to digitize the footage to even upload the stuff they did onto YouTube, so that money, time and energy was already spent. And I know, why offer the videos for online download when most of they are already on YouTube? And what of YouTube ad revenue?


One, I'd like for these video to be unedited (namely without the color and brightness edits I mentioned), and they'd be ad free (no YouTube ads for viewing on smart TVs, and issues with Google's ongoing war against ad blockers). And for the YouTube ad revenue, well, all you have to do is watch one or two videos on that subject and YouTube monetization to find out that, one, revenue from that is all over the place (at least offering them for paid download the money they would be getting would be consistent), not to mention that Google and YouTube seem to be doing everything they can to weasel their way out of paying up for monetization of videos.


Not to mention that even with IMSA still keeping the ALMS Videos and Grand Am video pages up as legacy pages, one, IMSA and NASCAR have otherwise left those pages in limbo for over a decade, and secondly, people are on YouTube still uploading footage and stuff the past few years, including stuff that IMSA in theory or even in actuality has available, as either that stuff is missing or people are dissatisfied with how IMSA implemented their uploads. Here I agree with what Gabe Newell said about video games--don't protect your IP by burying it under DRM and such, make a quality product at a good price, and things for the most part will take care of themselves.

You're suggesting they spend thousands a month running a platform to sell videos which they already put on the web for free. Nobody wins from your idea.

[chernaudi]

If nothing else, I think it'd be nice if they could upload some of the races that the missed, such as the St. Petersburg ALMS races and some of the endurance races (Sebring and PLM rounds from the ALMS era), though the endurance ones for sure I'm doubtful of them uploading due to time/length and demand.

[flatlandsman]

It largely depends if they wish to make money from this, it is not the work of 5 minutes to do his and to do it simply to make a few pence from ad clicks does not warrant the effort. I get where you are coming from, but you only really make money from places like Youtube by having subs and posting videos very frequently and get the ad revenue, a rights holder cannot be arsed with this for many reasons.

Forgive me for saying but you are probably better off trying to go a bit "dark" and trying to find places that host very old live footage that you can watch in your own time, not through an official place if you like

[chernaudi]

I do happen to have some of this stuff recorded onto VHS tapes and even a few that were recorded onto DVDs from back then, but one, it's going to take a lot of time and probably money on my part to get the VHS tapes converted (doesn't help that I don't have a functional VCR anywhere handy), and two, the DVDs are pretty much only god knows where (I've been trying to look for them for years now).


I'd prefer to do this though official channels if possible, one, to avoid active piracy and other questionable things, and two, I doubt nowadays that even though unofficial channels I can get where I want here.

[Adam43]

It would be really neat.

[chernaudi]

Just something to say/note when I saw a little bit of the 1996 NASCAR race at Suzuka that NASCAR uploaded to their Classics page, which was well done, and even in 60 FPS. I'm still mostly lamenting about the old ALMS videos that most of them seem to have had color edits done to them for some reason (makes green stuff look really saturated and like it came from Chernobyl reactor #4), and above all else, there's (at least IMO) significant races missing.


The highlights there are every Sebring after 2001, every PLM after 2000 (except 2008), as well as races like every one held at Salt Lake City, Portland '06 and maybe '05, every race at Houston and St. Petersburg.



I do wonder with the dissolution of both the ALMS/Grand Am at the end of 2013 meant that IMSA ran out of time or just saw it as not worth it aside from special races that occasionally get uploaded to the current IMSA page.

[broadrun96]

The most viewed ALMS video I could find was 49k in 10 years, most were in the 6-12k range in 10-14 years on the old ALMS page. The IMSA official and currently used page fares even worse for ALMS races. Things within the last years have slightly better numbers but I'm guessing many of those viewers were closer to live airing than now numbers. That's not exactly burning up the charts to drive viewers and make it effective to convert. You want to volunteer your time and bandwidth for free they might consider it but given the single digit numbers of full time staff they employ there isn't demand for or time available for this product

[chernaudi]

As I said before, I'd be willing to reach out to IMSA if they're willing to respond and just buy digital copies of such events, or even just get the footage from those events burned onto DVDs so I can digitize them and store the DVDs for safe keeping.



But they'd obviously want to get paid for such efforts (not against that obviously, but it's an issue of how much as I live on a fixed income), and if someone does that in their free time, even then they'd probably want paid or want something in return for their efforts. And if IMSA's media department is as short staffed as you say (which IMO is criminal, IMSA is basically owned by NASCAR for god's sake, and NASCAR is bombarding YouTube with old races on the NASCAR Classics channel, and yes, I understand that sportscar racing is a niche sport compared to NASCAR in North America outside of Le Mans), then those stakes will go up.

[Adam43]

It would be really neat.

[GT3_Fan]

So of the active sportscar categories/classes how would you rank your interest in them? Mine is this order: Most interested to least interested.

1. GT3/GTD
2. Hypercar/GTP
3. GT Cup (Porsche Carrera, Lambo ST, etc)
4. Japan Super GT500
5. GT4
6. LMP2
7. LMP3

[flatlandsman]

I would put it this way. GT4 for me is one of the best for close racing, the cars have less aero, there are lots of them, but it just has not taken off and Ratel treats it for me a bit like a poor relation. GT3 is now far lower for me, maybe 5th or 6th, cars are too big, too wide, and aero rules, BoP is great but makes the racing too freaky as you just get years or periods when one car dominates due to a BoP blip.

LKMP2 is magnificent, just wish it was not so amateur based, in WEC last year it was so cool to see the close batting.

LMP3 can do one for me

Hypercar very good and probably up there with GT4 and LMP2 as the categories I love the most, innovative, varied and well put together.

[FIRE]

It depends on the event but in general I prefer prototypes over GT's.