General Sportscar Chat thread

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

So of the active sportscar categories/classes how would you rank your interest in them? Mine is this order: Most interested to least interested.

1. GT3/GTD
2. Hypercar/GTP
3. GT Cup (Porsche Carrera, Lambo ST, etc)
4. Japan Super GT500
5. GT4
6. LMP2
7. LMP3

1. Hypercar/GTP
2. GT3/GTD
3. LMP2
4. GT4
5. GT Cup
6. LMP3
7. GT500

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I would put it this way. GT4 for me is one of the best for close racing, the cars have less aero, there are lots of them, but it just has not taken off and Ratel treats it for me a bit like a poor relation.

This ia a deliberate choice to keep SRO's GT3 gravy train going, and given its runaway and lasting success, I don't blame Ratel one bit.

For me (unashamedly prototypes first):
1) LMH/GTP
2) LMP2
3) GT500
4) GT3/GTD
5) LMP3 (except LMP3 - get out of GT3's way)
6) GT4
7) GT Cup

[JT240Z]

For the most part I like a mix of GTP and GTD but in IMSA I order them as:

1) GTP LMH/LMDH
2) LMP2
3) GT3/GTD
4) LMP3

Would prefer more GT3/GTD cars over LMP3

[GT3_Fan]

Originally Posted by J Jay

This ia a deliberate choice to keep SRO's GT3 gravy train going, and given its runaway and lasting success, I don't blame Ratel one bit.

For me (unashamedly prototypes first):
1) LMH/GTP
2) LMP2
3) GT500
4) GT3/GTD
5) LMP3 (except LMP3 - get out of GT3's way)
6) GT4
7) GT Cup

Good talk hope more posters will give their preferences. I'm in the minority I guess. I always have been and always will be a GT fan first and foremost. Granted the current hypercars are awesome. I like them way better than LMP1 and DPI. What baffles me is how anyone can like spec pro am prototype cars. LMP2 is the old Oreca 07s. Big deal.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

What baffles me is how anyone can like spec pro am prototype cars. LMP2 is the old Oreca 07s. Big deal.

If I (and I suspect most prototype fans) could turn back to pre-2017 I would, but that's long passed and it sadly isn't coming back. Therefore I have chosen to accept LMP2's failings while enjoying what it offers. Unfortunately, there is an element of the ACO/Oreca riding out the initial wave of indignation to the point now where it is only mentioned if someone brings it up.



Spec, just like BoP, is a tool for equalising the performace potential. It has its advantages and disadvantages, but for current LMP2 it serves its purpose relatively well.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

Good talk hope more posters will give their preferences.

Unfortunately I don't have too much to add. I've always joked that I came for the racing and stayed for the BS politics, but these days with a family of my own I really don't get around to watch much racing anymore, so I mostly keep tabs on a few series WEC/IMSA/DTM via post race coverage on DSC...the politics have also become kinda lame now that sportscar racing in almost all classes has reached a BoP-induced equilibrium.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

What baffles me is how anyone can like spec pro am prototype cars. LMP2 is the old Oreca 07s. Big deal.

A massive amount of people say they are baffled that anyone can like BoP'd cars which only pretend to look like the road versions but are unrelated. But with your username, you do.

Preferences.

[Adam43]

Good racing! That’s what it has. And some amazing team and driver performances to really get into in the race.

Be awful if it was the only class, but it is a great class.

I’d be happy with this and Hypercar as the two classes in WEC. Although more than happy with what we have.

Mind you what about we have more Hypercars and they can flex the second class of LMP2 more easily as 5e entries come and go?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

A massive amount of people say they are baffled that anyone can like BoP'd cars which only pretend to look like the road versions but are unrelated. But with your username, you do.



Preferences.

I watch cars built from required suppliers with almost all the exact same engine regardless of body applied. Oh and they bring 40 plus fields most races. It's TA2 racing in TransAm and streams for free on YT. TA is fun but it's 2 or 3 guys and wondering who's gonna explode

[DistortedSmile]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

Good talk hope more posters will give their preferences. I'm in the minority I guess. I always have been and always will be a GT fan first and foremost. Granted the current hypercars are awesome. I like them way better than LMP1 and DPI. What baffles me is how anyone can like spec pro am prototype cars. LMP2 is the old Oreca 07s. Big deal.

I really only care about Hypercar/GTP right now, I used to follow Super GT and this is probably very silly but I just can't get excited about the current cars in GT500, yes I know they're silhouettes and internally the current ''Civic'' is still pretty much the same as the previous ''NSX'' but still.

I do follow some GT3 racing but I'm only interested if there's a pro class, so for example IMSA GTD and the big GT3 races like Spa 24, N24, Bathurst, etc. The neutered pro/am GT3s in WEC don't do it for me, though I still much prefer them in the grid over LMPOreca. Don't really care about LMP3 or GT4.

[flatlandsman]

I feel your pain at times with GTAm style racing, it does occasionally offer up some interesting racing, but there are too many teams that are miles and I mean miles off the pace, you get it in all motor racing I guess, but for ALL the drivers in a team to be poor says something to me about what a teams is doing there.

I do say again that GT4 for me often offers very good racing, the Ratel series in particular I have got into a lot this year, so much so I have gone back and watched a few races form the past.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I feel your pain at times with GTAm style racing, it does occasionally offer up some interesting racing, but there are too many teams that are miles and I mean miles off the pace, you get it in all motor racing I guess, but for ALL the drivers in a team to be poor says something to me about what a teams is doing there.

I'm playing devils advocate a little bit here, but it's always been like this hasn't it? If we look back at the glory days of Group C, the gaps between the cars were massive compared to now? WECs GT3Am class only has 3-5 seconds over the entire grid. In the grand scheme of it, that's REALLY close.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'm playing devils advocate a little bit here, but it's always been like this hasn't it? If we look back at the glory days of Group C, the gaps between the cars were massive compared to now? WECs GT3Am class only has 3-5 seconds over the entire grid. In the grand scheme of it, that's REALLY close.

Yes there always has been and always will be a massive spread amongst the field in sportscar racing. There will always be drivers cars and teams of various levels of competitiveness. And long may it continue

[flatlandsman]

I think if there was space and less Hypercars there would be room for a Pro class in WEC, but it will not happen with the huge amount of Hypercars, I struggle how they will make space for the new LMP2, which seems to be suffering delay after delay, probably for this reason!

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I think if there was space and less Hypercars there would be room for a Pro class in WEC, but it will not happen with the huge amount of Hypercars, I struggle how they will make space for the new LMP2, which seems to be suffering delay after delay, probably for this reason!

AFAIK LMP2 is not scheduled to return to WEC outside of Le Mans?

[flatlandsman]

And that for me is a shame, there ought to be space for a more amateur prototype series in WEC, but the thing as usual, is space, ACO dont go where there is the most space, like any other series, they go to who wants to pay the most, within reason

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

And that for me is a shame, there ought to be space for a more amateur prototype series in WEC, but the thing as usual, is space, ACO dont go where there is the most space, like any other series, they go to who wants to pay the most, within reason

You would say no to some hypercars?

[flatlandsman]

I would not say no, I would go tot racks that can accommodate more cars, there is a difference.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'm playing devils advocate a little bit here, but it's always been like this hasn't it? If we look back at the glory days of Group C, the gaps between the cars were massive compared to now? WECs GT3Am class only has 3-5 seconds over the entire grid. In the grand scheme of it, that's REALLY close.

Gaps meant a lot less when everybody was pushing there cars as hard as they could (and often beyond that) and couldn't focus on reliability in the same way Hypercar-manufacturers these days can thanks to BoP and performance targets.

A five second gap over a race distance can be a snoozefest and a five lap gap can be a nailbiter given the right/wrong circumstances.

[porsche962fan]

^ in Group C at least the cars were freaking spectacular to watch , so in 90s GT racing which replaced it

lots and lots of power but no electronics , old fashion H-shifter and more rudimentary tyres, the drivers really had to fight to keep them on tack, today's cars regardless of class are simply too sterile and boring and quite ugly too

another thing missing todays is the self build cars many teams did , today everything is OEM and strictly regulated

and for those who say group C wasn't well supported looks at the 1989 - 1990 seasons works cars from Mercedes, Jaguar, Nissan , Toyota, Aston Martin (1989), Spice and some semi-works Porsches too (and a few privateres trying their own things to bring more out of the old 962C) , yes on paper Sauber won most of those races but the actual racing they weren't that dominating , they often had good luck (or misfortune of rivals)

[chernaudi]

Gee, that's the same thing I and others said about the Audi R8 and early R10 era. Not really Audi's fault that all the OEMs went to greener pastures (yeah, right, unless you consider F1 greener pastures) just as they were coming on song with the R8. At least they spent good money after "bad" (or whatever other thing you'd say for that) and stuck around for things to pick up after already making their investment, and chased records or innovations if they had no one else of note to chase on track.


And ironically, I do think that Porsche was one of several OEMs in the late 1990s that pushed for stricter homologation requirements. The basic deal with this (from an old Car and Driver article from 1998 about Le Mans that year and the ACOs and FIA's running the original GT1 class into the ground) was that the factory teams didn't like it when customer teams didn't do well with year old cars--let alone out perform the factory team and milked more out of an old car than the factory team did.


And even if Porsche didn't care about that, others obviously did. And at least the R8 never used traction control, and the R10 at first didn't (and even when they adopted it, it barely worked, though to be fair this early on a lot of teams didn't get it right, and many drivers didn't like TC).

[broadrun96]

I think some of y'all are WATCHING and not listening, I've yet to hear anyone get out and say oh yeah, that was a breeze to drive, easy to keep it on the track and a nice Sunday afternoon. I think you're far far far more a fan of destruction on the track be it a wreck or engine failure than of an actual race happening on the track

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I would not say no, I would go tot racks that can accommodate more cars, there is a difference.

More cars, more crashes, more yellows and FCY.
And you need at least 8 to 10 cars to have a class.

Don't get wrong, I would love to see LMP2 back but don't think it is realistic.

[W2Motorsport]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

So of the active sportscar categories/classes how would you rank your interest in them? Mine is this order: Most interested to least interested.

1. GT3/GTD
2. Hypercar/GTP
3. GT Cup (Porsche Carrera, Lambo ST, etc)
4. Japan Super GT500
5. GT4
6. LMP2
7. LMP3

I basically will only follow series that have at least one full pro class. I'm not interested in watching people who's primary qualification is success in the business world. So in regards specifically only to full pro classes.

1. LMDH/LMH/GTP
2. GTD Pro/SRO Pro classes

[v8supes]

As this is the general sportscar chat thread i felt like this was the best place to discuss this. Larry Ten Voorde the 3x Porsche Supercup, 4x German Carrera Cup and 1x Italian Carrera Cup champion has announced his retirement from Carrera Cup racing. I wonder where he is going now.... Hopefully Porsche have given him a contract for their GT3 customers.