[BTCC] Croft, 29/30 July 2023, Rds. 16/17/18

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by v8supes

Something is going on with these cars these days. Its like after lap 1 the top 5 just doesn't change.

Why would it? The big differentiator with the ballast wasn't the ballast itself rather that the setup of the cars had to be changed and some drivers/cars coped better with that than others.

Add in that the top drivers have all figured out that the way to win championships is by taking the points rather than wins and it's all going to be more sedate than the "good old days".

Personally I really like the racing these days primarily as it sets a far better example to the racers in lower tiers.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

too wide, too fragile, too restrictive on driver standards, and completely useless hybrid , that about sums it up the sorry state of the BTCC racing

I'm sorry, but no matter how many times that you repeat this mantra, it will not change how the TOCA package is regulated, although I do think that some realigning of the hybrid system is more than due.

The regulators of road circuit racing that used to be called the MSA, now whatever it's name is, takes rulings from the FIA, and they deem that this type of motor racing is a non contact sport. That means that you cannot have cars nerfing each other or pushing to pass, because that is contact. End of.

As to the hubs of the cars, they specifically designed to break on contact so that the cars do not get severely damaged; it's as simple as that. It must be remembered that not all the teams are as flush as the front runners - you only have to look at how many driver changes there have just been plus Hamilton's absence from the races today - and that was also mentioned obliquely by Rider at the top of the programme. Unlike the Motorbase team that had to completely strip and rejig Sutton's car, which is horrendously expensive, after the incident at Oulton, most other teams cannot afford that and they therefore may have to either continue with a badly twisted car or withdraw the car from further participation in the series.

Which is better, a fairly inexpensive weak part or a costly rebuild that may result in the car and driver not taking any further in the championship? I know which I would chose.

[Sodemo]

I didn’t realise the Sky box wasn’t recording the races today so some kind of balls up has occurred. Is there a way to watch the races back now? Thanks.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by GT6

Well not sure if it is just me or have i fallen out of love for BTCC the races are no longer that exciting and the support races are to say the least welll below the standard of the last few years.

It's not just you.

I've been out most of the day so catching up on the races. Can't comment on the support as I've ffwd past those (might come back to them later), but BTCC races have been pretty dull.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I didn’t realise the Sky box wasn’t recording the races today so some kind of balls up has occurred. Is there a way to watch the races back now? Thanks.

I would imagine you should be able to navigate ITV X to watch catch-up.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Bob Moffat in trouble… (not Aiden)

https://www.barc.net/wp-content/uplo...ine-Racing.pdf

“The Stewards find that:-
Moffat pushed and placed his hand on Loasby's throat
Moffat took hold of Morgan's clothing as a result of which Morgan felt threatened. Moffat used abusive lanquage to Mrs Chilton.”

There's some contact for you porsche962fan!

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

they should allow the sligth push to pass tap or be more tolerant of it otherwise it makes it way too easy to defend as anyone can see and we have processions

No they shouldn't. This is circuit racing, not banger racing or stock saloons on short ovals.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I would imagine you should be able to navigate ITV X to watch catch-up.

Yea I’ve had a look on the app but there is nothing listed from today, just yesterdays quali.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

No they shouldn't. This is circuit racing, not banger racing or stock saloons on short ovals.

oh yeah, like it's really fun seeing say for example Hill stuck behind the same car for near 2 whole races , we have the fine art of procession racing , spectators surelly must be ecstatic seeing that

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

oh yeah, like it's really fun seeing say for example Hill stuck behind the same car for near 2 whole races , we have the fine art of procession racing , spectators surelly must be ecstatic seeing that

It's better than seing someone gain position or win by causing someone else to crash. I sugest you find something else to watch.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

It's better than seing someone gain position or win by causing someone else to crash. I sugest you find something else to watch.

why can't you understand

I am not advocating raming someone out of the way, just the very mild slight nudge to pass costing the car 1 or 2 places at most

is it really that hard to understand ??

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

why can't you understand

I am not advocating raming someone out of the way, just the very mild slight nudge to pass

is it realy that hard to understand ??

No it's not difficult to understand that you are advocating a dangerous and illegal (in circuit racing terms) manouvre.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

No it's not difficult to understand that you are advocating a dangerous and illegal (in circuit racing terms) manouvre.

fine, then what is your solution for better racing ??

and BTW ralies are far far more dangeours for drivers and spectators yet you don't seem too worried about that or FIA

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

fine, then what is your solution for better racing ??

I'll leave that to those that produce the regulations in co-operation with the teams that participate in the championship - they're the experts.

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

and BTW ralies are far far more dangeours for drivers and spectators yet you don't seem too worried about that or FIA

Rally drivers only put themselves and their co-drivers in danger - not someone ahead they 'gently nudge' into a tree. Both are fully aware of the dangers otherwise they would not be participating.
The spectator areas are risk assessed prior to the rallies and properly controlled so nobody is in a position of danger.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

I'll leave that to those that produce the regulations in co-operation with the teams that participate in the championship - they're the experts.

AKA you have no solutions, those who produce the regultion brought this mess in the first place the useless hybrid, this regulation, the tyres gimmick all a big bunch of failure

Rally drivers only put themselves and their co-drivers in danger - not someone ahead they 'gently nudge' into a tree. Both are fully aware of the

didn't know racing circuits have trees on the sides , maybe they are invisible ??

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

fine, then what is your solution for better racing ??

and BTW ralies are far far more dangeours for drivers and spectators yet you don't seem too worried about that or FIA

One solution would be for other teams to bring their cars up to the standard of the leading ones. However, to someone who admires the driving skills that are on display, I find that the ability to have one driver keep his car in front of others very satisfying to watch.

As for rallying, that is a completely different discipline and were, usually one car does not have to overtake another as they have staggered starts. And if one car does actually catch up with another one, the driver doesn't tap the other car to get past.

As others have said, if you want to see cars being moved out of the way, there are races held at other places where those practices are permitted.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

One solution would be for other teams to bring their cars up to the standard of the leading ones. However, to someone who admires the driving skills that are on display, I find that the ability to have one driver keep his car in front of others very satisfying to watch..

it's TOO easy to do that now and it's freaking boring

how come the Legends have far far better racing than BTCC ?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

didn't know racing circuits have trees on the sides , maybe they are invisible ??

I've raced at circuits where they were tree lined like Oulton park for example, and I for one am glad that those dangers no longer exist. This all seems as though you do not appreciate the advances in safety that now protects drivers, unlike the days when I raced.

And by the way, I should have said earlier, that all current road cars, or so I believe, have a very inexpensive part inserted in the steering wheel column that is designed to break in the event of a frontal collision. It is a design feature to protect the driver in the event of said collision; well, the hubs of the BTCC cars are designed to protect the car from major damage in much the same way.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

how come the Legends have far far better racing than BTCC ?

Because they’re massively smaller and lighter, and reverse the entire grid.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

it's TOO easy to do that now and it's freaking boring

I suggest that if you think that it's so easy the you should raise the finance and have a go yourself and show them all how it should be done. I look forward to the day when I can see your demonstration of the art of racing.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I suggest that if you think that it's so easy the you should raise the finance and have a go yourself and show them all how it should be done. I look forward to the day when I can see your demonstration of the art of racing.

AKA you can't complain about toillet paper being too hard (or anything else for that matter) unless you manufacture toillet paper yourself ? you mean that type or argument ?

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

AKA you have no solutions, those who produce the regultion brought this mess in the first place the useless hybrid, this regulation, the tyres gimmick all a big bunch of failure

Firstly I would ditch the Hybrid and bring back proper success ballast - but some thought this produced 'artificial' results (much less artificial than punting off another driver) so was dropped in favour of what we have now.

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

didn't know racing circuits have trees on the sides , maybe they are invisible ??

Armco, concrete blocks, plenty of other solid trackside furniture for cars to be punted into.

Also with the Legends, they have the aerodynamics of a brick and, as stated above, smaller, lighter and have random grid draws and complete reversals of the grids.

[porsche962fan]

fine then we agree on something, ditch the damn Hybrid , brought just lots of extra costs and delivered nothing in terms of racing

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

AKA you can't complain about toillet paper being too hard (or anything else for that matter) unless you manufacture toillet paper yourself ? you mean that type or argument ?

No, but you can try another brand to find somethig that works for you. If you think that causing another driver to crash is what you want to see in motorsport, Touring Cars is not for you and you should try something else

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

No, but you can try another brand to find somethig that works for you. If you think that causing another driver to crash is what you want to see in motorsport, Touring Cars is not for you and you should try something else

so you didn't enjoy scenes like this ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRgL9PzHYk8