[ELMS] ELMS (was LMS) 2012 discussion

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Lebanza

Somewhat interesting that he too mentioned the absence of Petit...

Yeah. Now that the ELMS is back, maybe there should be some shared races between the ELMS and ALMS. I don't know if the teams would have the budget to do such a thing (perhaps make it a non-championship event for visiting teams), but it could be nice to have a "classic" race or two in both Europe and NA that are outside the FIA/WEC's grubby hands. Granted, I guess we saw how this idea worked out in 2001 so I won't count on this ever happening!

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by AGD

Yeah. Now that the ELMS is back, maybe there should be some shared races between the ELMS and ALMS. I don't know if the teams would have the budget to do such a thing (perhaps make it a non-championship event for visiting teams), but it could be nice to have a "classic" race or two in both Europe and NA that are outside the FIA/WEC's grubby hands. Granted, I guess we saw how this idea worked out in 2001 so I won't count on this ever happening!

Obviously not cause otherwise we would have seen more European teams at the Petit in former years. Afterall, there were auto entries to Le Mans up for grabs... With no such thing present for the European races I highly doubt ALMS teams are even considering coming across the pond.

Now if Peter and IMSA would come up with an interesting travel package and keep in mind the combined schedules and all Le Mans 24H activities, there could be some guests to the Petit and perhaps Zolder (giving ALMS teams also the opportunity to join the WEC at Spa and LM test day).

Edit: Zolder is not convenient with the ALMS round at Laguna (nor is the rest of the ELMS schedule unfortunately).

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Obviously not cause otherwise we would have seen more European teams at the Petit in former years. Afterall, there were auto entries to Le Mans up for grabs... With no such thing present for the European races I highly doubt ALMS teams are even considering coming across the pond.

Now if Peter and IMSA would come up with an interesting travel package and keep in mind the combined schedules and all Le Mans 24H activities, there could be some guests to the Petit and perhaps Zolder (giving ALMS teams also the opportunity to join the WEC at Spa and LM test day).

Edit: Zolder is not convenient with the ALMS round at Laguna (nor is the rest of the ELMS schedule unfortunately).

Yeah, I agree. It's mainly useless dreaming. Still, perhaps European teams (and vice versa) would be more tempted to crossover if they did not have to go up against the likes of Audi and Peugeot in P1 and Porsche and Acura in P2. Maybe some of the GTC and LMPC teams would be interested in a semi-international run of races, but I don't know what spectators would get excited about that. I guess it would be like an international prototype and GT endurance sports car series for amateur and other privateer type teams.

If nothing else, is there any hope for the ELMS of developing a "classic" race in Europe without having the support of the WEC? Maybe something like a Donington 10 Hours or something?

[Coach Ep]

Not next season, all races will be 6 hours. Perhaps in 2013, Donington could work, it´s a place with a lot of heritage. Monza would be my favorite option, shame there is no Le Mans race (WEC or ELMS) there anymore (same can be said of Germany). Finding an appropriate date on the crowded schedule is a bigger problem...

Auto entries earned at the Petit is now an obvious difference between ALMS and ELMS, hopefully the ACO will realize that too and will adjust that in the proper way - and that´s not by taking away the Petit auto entries! (but I would not be surprised - in the light of the recently developed ´stressed´ relationship between the ACO and ALMS - if they do....).

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Not next season, all races will be 6 hours. Perhaps in 2013, Donington could work, it´s a place with a lot of heritage. Monza would be my favorite option, shame there is no Le Mans race (WEC or ELMS) there anymore (same can be said of Germany). Finding an appropriate date on the crowded schedule is a bigger problem...

Auto entries earned at the Petit is now an obvious difference between ALMS and ELMS, hopefully the ACO will realize that too and will adjust that in the proper way - and that´s not by taking away the Petit auto entries! (but I would not be surprised - in the light of the recently developed ´stressed´ relationship between the ACO and ALMS - if they do....).

Yeah, obviously this would be for 2013 or beyond and who knows if the *LMSes will even be around then. As for the auto invite issue, I think whether Petit remains an auto-invite race is a big question. We'll have to see about that. Regardless, teams (at least non-factory teams) that don't get an auto-invite one way or another almost have to count themselves out of Le Mans with the WEC taking a large chunk of the spots. I think that puts more pressure on the ELMS (and to a lesser degree the ALMS) to create races with a special atmosphere that aren't Le Mans. Added to that is that there are now a lot of non-LM classes in the ALMS and ELMS. A lot of those teams would like to graduate to the LM classes in the *LMSes or the WEC, but some may like to stay within their non-LM classes. They might like a more premier race too.

But, anyway, with the WEC rumored to be interested in rounds in Russia, Malaysia, and who knows where else, these schedule conflicts and such are almost going to become inevitable. It seems very clear that the *LMSes are going to have to fend for themselves and create an atmosphere that their races are special and not just some kind of third rank sideshow. It's like they need their own Le Mans that isn't Le Mans. Perhaps focusing on some of the classic circuits of the US and Europe is a start. It's difficult with the WEC and Grand-Am grabbing first dibs on a lot of those circuits.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by AGD

There's still a good possibility that LMS GTE-Pro will be better or just as good as WEC GT-P. We'll have to see what the Porsche teams decide and if AF Corse or whoever decide to field an LMS -Pro team. LMP2 is to be seen. Boutsen, TDS, and company may stay in the LMS, but maybe they are considering WEC options as well.

I agree, the GTE Pro field at the Le Mans Series could be very healthy.

Originally Posted by AGD

The biggest problem with LMS (LMP2 in particular) is that it will be virtually impossible to get a guaranteed Le Mans entry in the LMS.

The ACO had said that Le Mans Series entries would be prioritary at the four European rounds of the WEC, including the 24 Hours. LMP2 is key not only for the Le Mans Series, but also to the WEC: it's where most new prototype teams will start racing before getting promoted to the WEC. I don't believe that all LMP2 European teams will join the WEC, it's quite expensive to travel around the world.

LMP2 driver formations aren't that restricted: "any 2 or 3 drivers' crew
must be made up of minimum one Silver or Bronze driver". So a team can have up to two platinum/gold drivers.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

The ACO had said that Le Mans Series entries would be prioritary at the four European rounds of the WEC, including the 24 Hours. LMP2 is key not only for the Le Mans Series, but also to the WEC: it's where most new prototype teams will start racing before getting promoted to the WEC. I don't believe that all LMP2 European teams will join the WEC, it's quite expensive to travel around the world.

There aren't four European rounds of the WEC. There is Spa, Silverstone, and then the double points round at Le Mans. Ok, if ELMS teams want in at Spa and Silverstone, they'll probably get in. Le Mans is a bit of a different story. Even last year some LMS teams of quality in the LMP2 class were put on the reserve list (Boutsen comes to mind) and next year will be even worse with an increase in WEC grid sizes and with less openings in general with the 56th garage.

[Simmi]

I'll start being fearful over Le Mans entries for ELMS entrants when we actually start getting any.

[LeMans.pt]

A comprehensive "silly season" entries list a the Portuguese website lemansportugal.

[pablocomics]

There are any announcement on the GTC class?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

A comprehensive "silly season" entries list a the [/URL].

This is the ELMS thread... your list has many cars that won't be in the ELMS (like all the LMP1 entries), not to mention self-promotion of your website is against forum rules.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

This is the ELMS thread... your list has many cars that won't be in the ELMS (like all the LMP1 entries), not to mention self-promotion of your website is against forum rules.

The link is to that website's WEC silly season page. There is a tab at the top of the page for the Le Mans Series silly season page.

You are correct, self-promotion (of one's own website) is against forum rules. Since LeMans.pt is a regular forum contributor and a genuine enthusiast who has not (as far as I'm aware) attempted to promote his website before, I shall let it go on this occasion, although I'm happy to backtrack on that decision if members feel strongly about it.

[Rodger Davies]

I'm thankful for the link, though I made the same mistake of not seeing the tabs at the top of the page, thanks for letting me know!

[AndrewF31]

You can also find on the site a Silly Season for Portuguese drivers and teams. The advantages of living in Portugal and speaking the language!

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

This is the ELMS thread... your list has many cars that won't be in the ELMS (like all the LMP1 entries), not to mention self-promotion of your website is against forum rules.

I know that the website is in portugueses language, but you don't need to understand it to know how to read it... just a little knowledge about web padrons! I can point you a book or two about it.

There ain't a single LMP1 in the LMS/ELMS section...

Why self promote a portuguese language site in a English based fórum? I never promoted before because it doesn't make any sense. Just want to share the list with people who have the same passion. The website has ZERO! ads. I'm not trying to make money of it, if that is you "concern"...

[LeMans.pt]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

You are correct, self-promotion (of one's own website) is against forum rules. Since LeMans.pt is a regular forum contributor and a genuine enthusiast who has not (as far as I'm aware) attempted to promote his website before, I shall let it go on this occasion, although I'm happy to backtrack on that decision if members feel strongly about it.

Thank you Bentley.

It's not my website entirely... 3 people work on it.
I know that some people will see this like self promotion, but that was not the case. The list is detailed and i wanted to share it with you all. The website is for portuguese speaking language only, and it doesn't make any sense to promote it in a english speaking forum.

We are (proudly) a ad free website, so having more or less pageviews is completely irrelevant to us.

[FstrthnU]

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...ance-9014.html
Sbarta Sport is testing the Bailey LMP2 in South Africa. They're hoping to purchase one for the next year. A south African Team is also in the works, but where they will race is unknown.

[vyselegend]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

Thank you Bentley.

It's not my website entirely... 3 people work on it.
I know that some people will see this like self promotion, but that was not the case. The list is detailed and i wanted to share it with you all. The website is for portuguese speaking language only, and it doesn't make any sense to promote it in a english speaking forum.

We are (proudly) a ad free website, so having more or less pageviews is completely irrelevant to us.

Well, thanks you for sharing your infos and links LeMans.pt, that's what a forum is about and that's what I hope to find when I come in here!
I see no promotions in there, and we're all providing EI and DSC and Autosport (etc...) links all day long, who knows if some of us are not working for those sites? (actually we know some of us do work for/own these sites)

I don't get your point Fogelhund, where was the offense? If someone has a valuable information accessible on his own website, should he keep it for himself instead of sharing?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by vyselegend

I don't get your point Fogelhund, where was the offense? If someone has a valuable information accessible on his own website, should he keep it for himself instead of sharing?

It's against forum rules. The forum admin chose to overlook it in this case, all good.

[DeathOrGlory]

Originally Posted by LeMans.pt

There ain't a single LMP1 in the LMS/ELMS section...

ELMS does not have LMP1 anymore. Only the ALMS and the WEC have LMP1.

[Victor_RO]

This answers some questions about driver classifications...

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...ance-9030.html

Greaves Motorsport's driver squad for the ELMS will be Alex Brundle/Tom Kimber-Smith. With TK-S the pro in that squad and the need for a Silver/Bronze driver on the team, looks like Brundle Jr is being classified as Silver.

So for Le Mans we might have Brundle Sr/Brundle Jr/Kimber-Smith as a driver squad... *excited*

[Marcel ten Caat]

We won't have Brundle/Brundle/Kimber-Smith at Le Mans.

Kimber-Smith has signed up for ELMS only as Greaves doesn’t have a seat available anymore for him for next year’s Le Mans 24 Hours.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Stranger

We won't have Brundle/Brundle/Kimber-Smith at Le Mans.

Kimber-Smith has signed up for ELMS only as Greaves doesn’t have a seat available anymore for him for next year’s Le Mans 24 Hours.

In that case, let me be the first to ask... why? :|

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Stranger

We won't have Brundle/Brundle/Kimber-Smith at Le Mans.

Kimber-Smith has signed up for ELMS only as Greaves doesn’t have a seat available anymore for him for next year’s Le Mans 24 Hours.

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

In that case, let me be the first to ask... why? :|

And I'll be the 2nd to ask, why? I thought they had 2 Le Mans invites, so 6 possible driver slots.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

In that case, let me be the first to ask... why? :|

Kimber-Smith will remain in the LMS, partnering F2 graduate Alex Brundle aboard the team’s Nissan-powered Zytek machine, but will need to look elsewhere should he hope to defend his crown at the French classic, with Greaves confirming that there is no Le Mans seat available for him. Bundle will be joined by father Martin for the 24 hours, with a third driver – expected to be former F1 racer Mark Blundell – yet to be announced.

http://www.motorstv.com/car/enduranc...-le-mans-berth