BREAKAWAY - Page 4

phoenix · 19 Jun 2009, 06:42 (Ref:2486373)

Quote:

Originally Posted by climb

When F1 expressed its best, there were two engines: Ferrari and Cosworth

.....and sometimes a screaming Matra

Pingguest · 19 Jun 2009, 06:55 (Ref:2486378)

Quote:

Originally Posted by climb

When F1 expressed its best, there were two engines: Ferrari and Cosworth

Its your opinion that the 1970s were the best in Formula 1's history. I disagree.

Pingguest · 19 Jun 2009, 06:57 (Ref:2486380)

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenix

.....and sometimes a screaming Matra

And BRM. And they had a tyre war.

b1ackcr0w · 19 Jun 2009, 07:06 (Ref:2486383)

Anyway, back to the topic...

Unusually, I tend to side with the FIA on this issue. In the current global financial crisis, the spendthrift nature of F1 racing seems an insulting anacronism to billions of people struggling to make ends meet and enjoy some sport as a relief at the weekend. The FIA may have set the cap too low. But I think the FOTA teams have the greater fault for not being more flexable in their negotiating stance.

This morning, one thought fills me with dread. The CART/IRL split and the damage it caused to racing in the US. It makes me shudder. As EERO said, no good can come of this.

davyboy · 19 Jun 2009, 07:08 (Ref:2486384)

Guys I wouldn't read too much into this FOTA statement... there will be no breakaway series in 2010, FOTA know that two series make no sense. This is purely ratcheting up the pressure on Max and the FIA in a power struggle that they feel they can win. Its already been demonstrated that deadlines and legal contracts don't seem to mean much in the world of F1. Its just another installment in this very sorry saga which is proving to be so damaging in the eyes of normal racefans.

Pingguest · 19 Jun 2009, 07:21 (Ref:2486394)

The official 2010 entry list will be released tomorrow. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the FIA would put Ferrari on it.

Purist · 19 Jun 2009, 07:21 (Ref:2486395)

F1 is supposed to be the unbridled, relatively, pinnacle of motorsport. The FIA keeps changing rules formulas, which means developing drastically different/new equipment much more often, and then continue to micromanage within the larger guidelines. This just serves to make every tenth, hundredth, and thousandth that much more expensive as you have fewer and fewer avenues of improvement at your disposal. The various debacles surrounding the 3.5-litre formula (particularly the collapse of the WSC after the 1992 season) should have spelled out the monetary pitfalls of F1 long ago.

BTW, F1's "extravagance" has flown in the face of the vast majority of the world's population since its inception in 1950, so that complaint hardly holds any more water now than it ever has.

Pingguest · 19 Jun 2009, 07:29 (Ref:2486402)

I don't really understand the argument of Formula 1 being "extravangance". Formula 1 has always been like that, its a part of the show. Besides, most manufactures spend very little money on their Formula 1-projects. Ferrari is running break-even!

ensign14 · 19 Jun 2009, 07:30 (Ref:2486403)

So the teams that were complaining about rising costs are splitting from the series that caps costs. Oooo-kaaaay.

All they need do now is pitch to CVC for the TV rights, buy them and re-join.

Marbot · 19 Jun 2009, 07:48 (Ref:2486409)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingguest

The official 2010 entry list will be released tomorrow. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the FIA would put Ferrari on it.

They will be on it,as will the two Red Bull teams.But that's not really Bernie's trump card.

Nicholosophy · 19 Jun 2009, 08:28 (Ref:2486423)

Let's see what will happen.

Max and Bernie will release the list of 2010 entrants tomorrow.

This will be:
AT&T Williams
Force India F1
Campos Grand Prix (Cosworth)
Manor Grand Prix (Cosworth)
Team USF1 (Cosworth)
Prodrive
Lola

So that's seven, without Ferrari and Red Bull 1 & 2. Lets say they also include them. That's 10 teams.

They've capped the series at 13 teams, so that leaves three FOTA teams that can come back if there is a compromise. They can't just drop some of the new teams, as they will have binding entries or would have to spend money to send them on their way.

So who would the FIA welcome back?

I'd expect Brawn and perhaps McLaren. McLaren might have Merc money but are really a race team first and foremost. That's 12. If Lola really have decided to not bother, it's still 11.

Throw in two more paper tigers, or dummy spits from the remaining FOTA teams and Renault, Toyota and BMW an easy path out of F1 without having to quit, which could be seen as saving face.

You heard it here first folks.

littleman · 19 Jun 2009, 08:34 (Ref:2486431)

This has got nothing to do with budget caps or regulations. The manufacturers have been plotting this breakaway series for a few years.Ecclestone apparently owes them ten's of millions of dollars and has had far too much power for far too long. Mosely is just a smug irritation.

The FOTA guys believe they ARE Formula One and have simply decided to take power and control from two greedy old men.

Albeckinho · 19 Jun 2009, 08:53 (Ref:2486450)

No, the F1 2010 grid will consist of:

Force-India
Williams
Manor
Campos
USF1
Prodrive
Lotus
March
Superfund
Epsilon Euskadi
N.Technology
Brabham
Lola

:O

ECW Dan Selby · 19 Jun 2009, 09:03 (Ref:2486458)

I tell you what; what drivers actually sign up to these teams I feel will really determine how well F1 copes..

But as far as teams go, that looks quite interesting.

Selby

davyboy · 19 Jun 2009, 09:08 (Ref:2486462)

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleman

This has got nothing to do with budget caps or regulations. The manufacturers have been plotting this breakaway series for a few years.Ecclestone apparently owes them ten's of millions of dollars and has had far too much power for far too long. Mosely is just a smug irritation.

The FOTA guys believe they ARE Formula One and have simply decided to take power and control from two greedy old men.

Truth be told we have no idea what agreements are in place between FOM/FIA and the teams. Neither do we know who owes what to whom. Expect to see everyone sueing everyone else. This is a great day for the lawyers, they'll be popping the bubbly this weekend on the expectation of a large and lengthy windfall.

nycuk · 19 Jun 2009, 09:11 (Ref:2486468)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

Guys I wouldn't read too much into this FOTA statement... there will be no breakaway series in 2010, FOTA know that two series make no sense. This is purely ratcheting up the pressure on Max and the FIA in a power struggle that they feel they can win. Its already been demonstrated that deadlines and legal contracts don't seem to mean much in the world of F1. Its just another installment in this very sorry saga which is proving to be so damaging in the eyes of normal racefans.

Totally agree, I won't believe a breakaway series is going to happen until I see a published calender and entry list etc. A compromise will be reached.

jellison · 19 Jun 2009, 09:28 (Ref:2486474)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satorian

**** YEAH!!!

Go FOTA!

Finally, finally, finally!

If only the FIA would just fold up tents and F88 Of6.

The series organisers could get on with running the series they want then in the way they want and negotiate with the track direct.

Thes FIA W8n&ers in Paris should not have control over Global MS. The US do fine without them. They are SO, NOT REQUIRED.

Andy77 · 19 Jun 2009, 10:26 (Ref:2486492)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jellison

If only the FIA would just fold up tents and F88 Of6.

The series organisers could get on with running the series they want then in the way they want and negotiate with the track direct.

Thes FIA W8n&ers in Paris should not have control over Global MS. The US do fine without them. They are SO, NOT REQUIRED.

If you believe it or not even US motorsport runs FIA sanctioned

Spritle · 19 Jun 2009, 10:37 (Ref:2486495)

YES!

F1Pete · 19 Jun 2009, 11:51 (Ref:2486520)

I knew FOTA would not give in. Finally some good news in F1. Max won't be involved for much longer, Bernie will be forced to compromise or else F1 will move on without him. Good times!

On a side note, F1 doesn't seem to really care for the fans. When watching any form of racing in the States it is all about the fans. F1 fans should also form an association and protest by not attending any upcoming races. Then we would see how much "power" the fans actually have? Of course the protest would be about ticket prices, rules to make races a little more exciting, etc.

Inigo Montoya · 19 Jun 2009, 12:52 (Ref:2486539)

Fantastic news! Forza FOTA!!!

Yannick · 19 Jun 2009, 13:18 (Ref:2486547)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickoGP

Let's see what will happen.

Max and Bernie will release the list of 2010 entrants tomorrow.

This will be:
AT&T Williams
Force India F1
Campos Grand Prix (Cosworth)
Manor Grand Prix (Cosworth)
Team USF1 (Cosworth)
Prodrive
Lola

So that's seven, without Ferrari and Red Bull 1 & 2. Lets say they also include them. That's 10 teams.

I have to slightly disagree, because Lola have withdrawn their entry. Enlist Epsilon Euskadi instead.

N Technology might be wanting to join FOTA, since they have withdrawn their entry, too, but after FOTA made their breakaway announcement.

ECW Dan Selby · 19 Jun 2009, 13:36 (Ref:2486556)

Although Lola have withdrawn their entry, I wouldn't have thought that'd count for much given the fact F1 could be left with a hand full of teams. Bare in mind Lola had also apparently began work on their car. I'm sure they're not just burning that in to scrap metal as we speak..

Selby

Satorian · 19 Jun 2009, 14:15 (Ref:2486561)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yannick

N Technology might be wanting to join FOTA, since they have withdrawn their entry, too, but after FOTA made their breakaway announcement.

Considering their feelings of having been played like throw-away fiddles, N Technology might be in line to join the FOTA series as well.

Satorian · 19 Jun 2009, 14:15 (Ref:2486562)

Quote:

Originally Posted by climb

Not so weak IMo; for instance he can blackmail the track hosting fota events, preventing any FIA series (WSR, F3, F2, FIA GT, LMS etc) from being hosted at those tracks; it could mean that hosting FOTa races could be not so convenient.

LMS is run under ACO. FIA GT as organized by SRO could just as well turn into the ACO GT World Championship in the near future. F2 doesn't pull much weight.

Quote:

Don't think so: fota teams have been downsizing in the last few months, and a lot of experienced people are looking for a job in the 2010 F1

Or will be doing so in the small newcomer teams in the FOTA-led series.

Quote:

No more; the fota series is clearly meant to make profits itself,

"Clearly"? Where do you "clearly" take that from?

Quote:

regardless it helps sell cars or not; the manufacturers aim at getting the 100% of the commercial and TV rights, that are currently mostly enjoyed by Bernie.

I assume the FOTA series will run with marginal profit, just enough to ensure it's not going under on a weak year, and will pour the remaining money into price purses and investment instead to make the racing financially viable for the teams.

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