[WEC Race] 2012 Six Hours of Fuji

[TF110]

Speaking of comparisons between series, how about some like cars?

How about Aston Martin's GTE Vantage vs. Their GT3 Vantage run in SGT GT300 class;
GTE Vantage fastest test time- 1:41.459 vs. GT3 Vantage Qualifying RD.6 Fuji- 1'40.991

How about Porsche's 911 GTE Am vs. Hankook 911 GT3 GT300 class;
GTE 911- 1:43.270 vs. HK 911GT3 Qualifying- 1'40.583

[chernaudi]

Nakajima said that Super GT cars use softer, but presumably less durable, tires than LMP cars. It seems to apply to the GT300/GT3 spec cars vs their similar GTE equivalents too, as well as the fact that the GT3 cars do run larger air restrictors, and Fuji for SGT cars is a big time power track with that long straight.

[MitchZ06]

Why not the Pro Porsche for a better comparison...

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by TF110

Toyota obviously has some great cornering speeds and acceleration if they're down almost 10kmh on the straights but setting equal times to Audi.

Perhaps it makes more sense to look at the top speeds of the afternoon test session when the teams were experimenting a bit less with aero settings.

• Audi #1: 293.5 km/h
• Audi #2: 292.7 km/h
• Toyota #7: 288 km/h
• Rebellion #12: 287.2 km/h
• Oak #15: 291.9 km/h
• JRM #22: 287.2 km/h

In that case, the difference in top speed between Audi and Toyota is around 5 km/h. That is in line with what we saw in the previous races.

Average of best top speeds during the 6 hours of Bahrain:

• Audi #1 (e-tron): 285.5 km/h
• Audi #2 (e-tron): 284.3 km/h
• Toyota #7: 278.5 km/h

Average of best top speeds during the 6 hours of Sao Paulo:

• Audi #2 (ultra): 281.5 km/h
• Audi #1 (e-tron): 280.9 km/h
• Toyota #7: 274.7 km/h

Average of best top speeds during the 6 hours of Silverstone:

• Audi #2 (ultra): 275.2 km/h
• Audi #1 (e-tron): 274.5 km/h
• Toyota #7: 267.7 km/h

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Why not the Pro Porsche for a better comparison...

Because the 77 Porsche did not run in the test session, the only GTE-Pro car to run in it was the Aston.

[tux]

It is no suprise to see that GT3 cars are quicker than GTE cars now though is it? All of the direct comparison cars Porsche, Ferrari, Aston have more power, the same driver aids + abs, similar downforce levels in GT3 spec.

Anyway, Whats happening with the Honda/HPD LMP project, i thought it was announced around Le Mans time they were going to enter with a full manufactuer/works project run by JRM/Strakka but i cant find any other information about it.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by tux

Anyway, Whats happening with the Honda/HPD LMP project, i thought it was announced around Le Mans time they were going to enter with a full manufactuer/works project run by JRM/Strakka but i cant find any other information about it.

They're probably still evaluating which team will get more manufacturer backing.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

It is always interesting to compare the average lap times of the long runs.
Lotterer still seems to suffer from tyre wear in his second stint.

Paul Truswell calculated exactly the same average lap times: http://trussers.blogspot.com/2012/10...est-close.html

He calculated that 34 lap stints are necessary to finish the race with just 6 pit stops. Audi can manage this, but Toyota probably not. So Toyota will need some rain or a safety car to avoid an additional stop.

[GT3.14]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

They're probably still evaluating which team will get more manufacturer backing.

But OAK Racing has complicated this with their deal. Perhaps Honda sees OAK as the way forward.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Perhaps it makes more sense to look at the top speeds of the afternoon test session when the teams were experimenting a bit less with aero settings.

• Audi #1: 293.5 km/h
• Audi #2: 292.7 km/h
• Toyota #7: 288 km/h
• Rebellion #12: 287.2 km/h
• Oak #15: 291.9 km/h
• JRM #22: 287.2 km/h

In that case, the difference in top speed between Audi and Toyota is around 5 km/h. That is in line with what we saw in the previous races.

Oak's speed is quite refreshing to see after missing the last few rounds. I guess they have come to terms with the HPD engine quite quickly. We know the chassis to be slippery based on some trap times at previous races.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

They're probably still evaluating which team will get more manufacturer backing.

I think Graham Goodwin came out recently and said it wasn't happening as the funding wasn't there.

But then you see this:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103263

That's just one guy within Honda's opinion. They are making out like the WTCC project is a works effort which I wasn't aware of. So I'm not sure it comes down to money - more desire from them to go top-level sportscar racing. Let's see what happens with the NSX.

You'd think the success of Toyota might have changed that but obviously not.

[Coopz21 x]

I swear Midweek Motorsport said that the Honda thing would likely be GTE?

[JAG__]

NXS GTE + possible increased backing for customer LMP teams.

What's been ruled out, for the time being, is a full factory P1 team. The Motorsport-Total Toyota interviews mention Honda have been involved in recent ACO/FIA reg discussions, but they would regardless with the HPD interest.

They also mentioned Jaguar have been looking at P1 but keeping quiet.

[CTD]

Shouldn't we take the Rumor talking, to the actual Rumor thread?

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by CTD

Shouldn't we take the Rumor talking, to the actual Rumor thread?

That is probably a good idea, but the announcement, what ever it's supposed to be, was scheduled for this race weekend, either Friday or Saturday most likely. That aside, it would be perfectly suited to the rumor thread, and that the NSX GTE has been rumored for a while, seemingly about as long as the road car has been.

Of course, wouldn't it be ironic that if Honda is involved that this announcement is to be made at Fuji, a track that since 2000 has been owned by Toyota, who have a headlining LMP1 car in the field?

[chernaudi]

And back on the topic of Fuji, it looks like the forecasts of rain are out the window and have reverted back to the initial sunny and mild forecast for the whole race weekend.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Perhaps it makes more sense to look at the top speeds of the afternoon test session when the teams were experimenting a bit less with aero settings.

• Audi #1: 293.5 km/h
• Audi #2: 292.7 km/h
• Toyota #7: 288 km/h
• Rebellion #12: 287.2 km/h
• Oak #15: 291.9 km/h
• JRM #22: 287.2 km/h

In that case, the difference in top speed between Audi and Toyota is around 5 km/h. That is in line with what we saw in the previous races.

Average of best top speeds during the 6 hours of Bahrain:

• Audi #1 (e-tron): 285.5 km/h
• Audi #2 (e-tron): 284.3 km/h
• Toyota #7: 278.5 km/h

Average of best top speeds during the 6 hours of Sao Paulo:

• Audi #2 (ultra): 281.5 km/h
• Audi #1 (e-tron): 280.9 km/h
• Toyota #7: 274.7 km/h

Average of best top speeds during the 6 hours of Silverstone:

• Audi #2 (ultra): 275.2 km/h
• Audi #1 (e-tron): 274.5 km/h
• Toyota #7: 267.7 km/h

Yeah, a bit less with aero settings! Maybe they finalized what type of wing level to run. Look at the morning session- the Audi did 295kmh while the Toyota did 282kmh. So what is the story here? Audi adds a little more wing in the afternoon to achieve about the same time Toyota does, while Toyota takes off a little wing and achieves about the same time as the morning session. Take a look at the sector times from the morning. Sector 3 Audi were 43.2's while Toyota was 42.6's. Then in the afternoon session Toyota's best 3rd sector times were 42.8's and Audi's 42.8/42.9! Looks like they added a bit more downforce while Toyota took some out. Toyota achieved the best 1st sector in the afternoon session which is the end of the straight, then the acceleration out of Turn 1.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Purist

Deggis and Greg, I can tell you this much right off. The F1 cars at Monza were topping out at 200-203-mph on their own. Even with DRS activated, they couldn't go beyond 210-mph.

Among those four longest stretches at Le Mans, the slowest of those, for a factory LMP1, is 210-mph. The other three see speeds of 212-216-mph.

I already said Sarthe is invalid as an comparison, because obviously F1 car doesn't have official data from there. Lenghts of the straights might be same, but the track still isn't the same and sections leading to those straights are not same.

You seem to conveniently forget that post-2011 LMP1s do not have achieve that high speeds.

LMP1s do not have DRS, and the energy required to attain a given speed goes up with the square of the velocity. Current F1 cars are supposed to be making ~800-hp, while current LMP1s are supposed to be making ~600-hp.

How is this relevant at all? Are we talking about real life, current F1 cars or not?

You will find F1 top speeds from here (select race > qual > speed trap) and you will also find top speeds for ILMC and WEC here.

What you will not find though are higher top speeds for LMP1. There seems to be a similar 10-20 km/h gap across the circuits.

[JAG__]

Bertrand Baguette estimates the HPD motor has a 50bhp advantage over the Judd. Even if it's half that, in addition to better reliability, that's significant.

http://www.speedactiontv.be/Bertrand...t-10156-1.aspx

[TF110]

Practice 1 is underway. Toyota leading the way after a half hour with 1:29.564.

[nasdriv87]

any live comments?!?!?

they must show the track not the hills...

[TF110]

Radio LeMans always covers these practices, if that's what you mean about live comments.
Toyota first into the 28's, 1:28.809 from Nakajima.

[nasdriv87]

Originally Posted by TF110

Radio LeMans always covers these practices, if that's what you mean about live comments.
Toyota first into the 28's, 1:28.808 from Nakajima.

sorry i had forgoten about that, and i'm already listening them here...

good luck to TS030 and watch out from Strakka while passing them while in race...

[Canada ALMS fan]

No #61 AF Corse Waltrip/Kauffman 458, Rob had to leave so not enough drivers this weekend.

[Purist]

Deggis, a significantly greater proportion of the lap at Le Mans is composed of high-speed, high-downforce corners than is the case at Monza. Therefore, regardless of F1 cars having not run there, it is only reasonable that F1 cars would run equal if not more downforce at Le Mans than at Monza. They're already so drag-limited that I can't see them gaining much of anything trying longer gears at Le Mans, especially if they run more downforce.

Also, how is it possible to run only 311km/h in qualifying at Suzuka, with free reign on DRS, and run 318km/h in the race with no DRS, and 322/323km/h with the limited allotment of DRS? Sorry, those numbers do NOT add up. Also, the number from Spa qualifying is 310km/h, but weren't we seeing 311-313km/h from the Audis last year at Spa?

I must say that I really don't feel like I can count DRS-generated speeds as legitimate. If they had free reign to use the system in the race (which I know would defeat the point of it as it is intended), that might be another matter. However, it is what it is, and not a Chaparral flap, so it really comes off as a video game feature. I really cannot see it as an accurate reflection of what the car setup alone would make possible under the current conditions.

Deggis, I don't know what to do with your second link. The listing on the left almost instantly goes from clickable links to straight text, so I can't actually click on them to get any session results. (I checked my Adobe Reader, and no notice of needing an update came up, as far as I could tell.)

Looks like the Toyota has it in Practice 1. I'm looking forward to seeing just how quickly these guys can lap this Fuji layout.

(Of course, there was something just wild about those Porsche 956s hurtling around the old track, with no chicanes, and averaging nearly 140-mph. The old, unmolested, 300R was something else!)