[Official] Qatar Grand Prix 2023: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 18 of 23

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Don't forget that Pirelli have to ship, not fly, their tyres to the races outside Europe. In the case of Qatar, I would imagine that the container/s left the factory at least 4 weeks ago, probably even longer.

This is true. However the issue was discovered before the sprint race and everyone knew at that point how many tyres would've been needed. It would've been possible to overnight tyres to the circuit to make up the difference. Many an endurance team has done similar with a chassis over the years.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

This is true. However the issue was discovered before the sprint race and everyone knew at that point how many tyres would've been needed. It would've been possible to overnight tyres to the circuit to make up the difference. Many an endurance team has done similar with a chassis over the years.

I doubt that they can just magic up a load of F1 tyres at a moments notice.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

This is true. However the issue was discovered before the sprint race and everyone knew at that point how many tyres would've been needed. It would've been possible to overnight tyres to the circuit to make up the difference. Many an endurance team has done similar with a chassis over the years.

I think you might be underestimating the logistics and customs there!

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

This is true. However the issue was discovered before the sprint race and everyone knew at that point how many tyres would've been needed. It would've been possible to overnight tyres to the circuit to make up the difference. Many an endurance team has done similar with a chassis over the years.

Yes, of course they could have, but the FIA are not a single team. I think that if they had done so, serious ethical, i.e green type, questions would have been raised. In a way, this is almost a rerun Indianapolis so many years ago.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by steve_r

I doubt that they can just magic up a load of F1 tyres at a moments notice.

As discussed, these are produced months in advance. They have tyres.

Originally Posted by peebee2

I think you might be underestimating the logistics and customs there!

If random GT3/LMP2 teams can overnight chassis from the UK/Italy to Abu Dhabi then I'm entirely sure the might that is Formula 1 can manage it.

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Yes, of course they could have, but the FIA are not a single team. I think that if they had done so, serious ethical, i.e green type, questions would have been raised. In a way, this is almost a rerun Indianapolis so many years ago.

I agree with what you say, but I'm not sure "it's green an unethical" would've come up in the discussion on how to get tyres to the Qatar Grand Prix.

[chillibowl]

I’m sure they could have but also I’m glad they didn’t spend their way out of their problems. Instead they made do with what they had and it’s was a fairly interesting and less sanitized version of what we typically get.

IMO they played it right.

[Derwent]

I think the whole race brings up ethical, health, moral and environmental issues like all the Gulf tin pot regimes that buy into having a GP. There is no reason to go there.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by Derwent

I think the whole race brings up ethical, health, moral and environmental issues like all the Gulf tin pot regimes that buy into having a GP. There is no reason to go there.

I AM $UR€ TH£R€ AR£ R£ASON$.

[Mike Harte]

Following the race at Qatar, the FIA has announced that it is to look at reshaping the F1 calendar. No, nothing to do with the tyres, but because of the heat conditions and the affect it had on the drivers during and after the race.

See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/67061016

[Alan52]

The heat issues in Qatar were 100% predictable.When they announced the date I googled the climate there early October and this was always going to happen.
Liberty knew but didn’t care.They could have moved it to between Las Vegas and Abu Dhabi like it is in 2024 but were more concerned about a 4 week gap in their calendar than driver welfare

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Derwent

There is no reason to go there.

What is the reason for going to any circuit? Whether that is in the Western, Eastern, Arab or African worlds (or any other subjective concept of division).

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Liberty knew but didn’t care.They could have moved it to between Las Vegas and Abu Dhabi like it is in 2024 but were more concerned about a 4 week gap in their calendar than driver welfare

I’m curious how much colder you thought it was in AD or LV this past weekend?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

I’m curious how much colder you thought it was in AD or LV this past weekend?

I think it was meant as moving it to late November / early December - like it is in 2024.

[Derwent]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

What is the reason for going to any circuit? Whether that is in the Western, Eastern, Arab or African worlds (or any other subjective concept of division).

Surely it is about the amount of interest there is in the country and a past culture of racing. It is dreadful that France and Germany with long GP involvement, teams and drivers racing now, don't have races and there are perhaps eight countries that buy GPs purely for the kudos. In the case of most of the Gulf countries they have tiny populations as well.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Derwent

Surely it is about the amount of interest there is in the country and a past culture of racing.

If that were to be the only reason to race at a particular venue - I feel that would make the sport very insular in nature. I would put forward the idea that the sport has to expand into other markets to allow the future fandom to grow.

If you took the requirement to have a past culture literally, then Japan's entry onto the calendar in 1976 or Brazil's in 1972 should be challenged. But, both of those countries have gone on to build a history and seem to be more than accepted as countries to race in. Bahrain is building a history having hosted 20 GPs, just behind's Mexico with 22.

How does a country build a culture of racing, if the pinnacle of Formula Racing does not visit there?
How do you build a history of F1 racing in a country, if you are never allowed to host your 1st race?

I can accept that moving too fast into a new market, at the detriment of others, can be a bad move. But IMO, F1 should not be dismissive of new locations just because of a lack of history.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

What is the reason for going to any circuit? Whether that is in the Western, Eastern, Arab or African worlds (or any other subjective concept of division).

Some places it is a the circuit, the history, the fans, the teams and drivers locale.

Some places it's sports washing.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think it was meant as moving it to late November / early December - like it is in 2024.

Fair fair and looking at the 2024 calendar now.

Also hottest year on record with more to come…wonder how much longer the traditional summer venues will be able to hold on for? How much shifting of the schedule can be done to ensure it’s never too hot again at a race track?

[Skam85]

The calendar can do with two fewer average Middle East races and at least one less in the USA.

Qatar is a fun track, Jeddah is great.
Bahrain is completely average though, the fact the outer track gave us a better race says it all. It doesn't bring anything to the table other tracks that have recently departed don't. It doesn't even have the night race difference as Jeddah and Qatar are both under lights.

If it was me culling, I'd ditch Abu Dhabi, Bahrain and Miami, bring back Turkey, Hockenheim & Malaysia.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Skam85

The calendar can do with two fewer average Middle East races and at least one less in the USA.

Qatar is a fun track, Jeddah is great.
Bahrain is completely average though, the fact the outer track gave us a better race says it all. It doesn't bring anything to the table other tracks that have recently departed don't. It doesn't even have the night race difference as Jeddah and Qatar are both under lights.

If it was me culling, I'd ditch Abu Dhabi, Bahrain and Miami, bring back Turkey, Hockenheim & Malaysia.

Those are the venues I'd be glad to see the back of too.

Like you, I think both Istanbul.
and Sepang are cracking circuits.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

As discussed, these are produced months in advance. They have tyres.
If random GT3/LMP2 teams can overnight chassis from the UK/Italy to Abu Dhabi then I'm entirely sure the might that is Formula 1 can manage it.

Not anything like that simple for F1 (nothing ever is in F1 as we all know).

The tyres you mention on other series are production tyres and they follow a standard production approach of "just in time" manufacturing but with some storage margin, so additional tyres can be possible.

F1 follows a JIT manufacturing process but they aren't production tyres and as we have seen, the spec of the tyres can be changed at relatively short notice, which the non-production, JIT manufacturing process allows. I'd be deeply surprised if there is a handy stockpile of all compounds sitting at Pirelli.

I think that the right call was made given the situation at hand.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Also hottest year on record with more to come…wonder how much longer the traditional summer venues will be able to hold on for? How much shifting of the schedule can be done to ensure it’s never too hot again at a race track?

Won't be easy, that's for sure. Here in Oz, it is regularly 50 degrees celsius plus inside the car's cabins, so the drivers all wear cool suits, have fresh air plumbed into their helmets, some "full bore" drink systems. F1 cars ARE very hot for drivers, no doubt about that and maybe the FIA should be looking at driver welfare and mandating cool suits (which need dry ice & a circulating system, fresh air into helmets and all that. The cars are so heavy and so big now, it should be possible to accomodate - even if it is only used during races.