Ssangyong Racing Series [renamed]

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by promax

probably 99% of them..

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...-710818334.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...-715437537.htm

For the record, of the 25 SRS Utes that raced at Taupo, 16 were either purchased outright or leased by private entrants. Of the remaining 9 utes, 8 are owned by Ssangyong dealers who were keen to assist up and coming youngsters like Chelsea Herbert, Fain Maniapoto, Cory Holmes etc. We GMLD, Great Lake Motor Distributors as the importers of Ssangyong vehicles, owned the Ute that Gene Rollinson ended up driving driving, in place of the Korean journalist that unfortunately arrived to late for qualifying.

With regard to the trademe listing, if you are not familiar with the 'tricks of the trade' in the motor vehicle world, then its easy to be taken in by this form of ambush marketing in order to get around trademe rules about vehicle advertising. In other word's the ad's you refer to are nothing more than advertisements for Ssangyong vehicles, by Ssangyong dealers.

I suggest you ring both of those dealerships and tell them you would like to buy that particular race ute. I can guarantee that you will be told something along the lines of "well we cant sell you that particular race ute" but we can probably get you one of the 4 as yet unsold race utes.

Just in case you are not already aware, and by the way I have no issue with this fact, all 20 "new generation" TRS cars are owned by Toyota New Zealand and can only be leased for a season by an approved team.

Toyota New Zealand also financed and had built 21 new TR86's and in their second year of their National Championship category status, have sold only 9 of these vehicles, of which at least 3 are owned by Toyota dealers.

So, other than the fact that our utes are not exactly the fastest race vehicles on the planet, whats different?

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

For the record, of the 25 SRS Utes that raced at Taupo, 16 were either purchased outright or leased by private entrants. Of the remaining 9 utes, 8 are owned by Ssangyong dealers who were keen to assist up and coming youngsters like Chelsea Herbert, Fain Maniapoto, Cory Holmes etc. We GMLD, Great Lake Motor Distributors as the importers of Ssangyong vehicles, owned the Ute that Gene Rollinson ended up driving driving, in place of the Korean journalist that unfortunately arrived to late for qualifying.

With regard to the trademe listing, if you are not familiar with the 'tricks of the trade' in the motor vehicle world, then its easy to be taken in by this form of ambush marketing in order to get around trademe rules about vehicle advertising. In other word's the ad's you refer to are nothing more than advertisements for Ssangyong vehicles, by Ssangyong dealers.

I suggest you ring both of those dealerships and tell them you would like to buy that particular race ute. I can guarantee that you will be told something along the lines of "well we cant sell you that particular race ute" but we can probably get you one of the 4 as yet unsold race utes.

Just in case you are not already aware, and by the way I have no issue with this fact, all 20 "new generation" TRS cars are owned by Toyota New Zealand and can only be leased for a season by an approved team.

Toyota New Zealand also financed and had built 21 new TR86's and in their second year of their National Championship category status, have sold only 9 of these vehicles, of which at least 3 are owned by Toyota dealers.

So, other than the fact that our utes are not exactly the fastest race vehicles on the planet, whats different?

cory holmes is a lose driver be it the ites or 86 he has no craft

[CDM]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

For the record, of the 25 SRS Utes that raced at Taupo, 16 were either purchased outright or leased by private entrants.

Im keen to know how many have actually been purchased by private entrants, excluding the ones owned by the SingSong dealers...

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by CDM

Im keen to know how many have actually been purchased by private entrants, excluding the ones owned by the SingSong dealers...

Hmmmm, one wonders why are you "keen to know other peoples business? The question as to whether private entrants, have bought a vehicle outright, on the drip, or leased it, is surely their business, at least we think it is.

Incidentally, all of our participating dealers paid us, GLMD, the full price for each of their utes, there pay-back is the predominant signage on the vehicle, and the use of the race vehicle between races as a static display, plus they are also helping us to promote the brand.

[CDM]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Hmmmm, one wonders why are you "keen to know other peoples business? The question as to whether private entrants, have bought a vehicle outright, on the drip, or leased it, is surely their business, at least we think it is.

Whats the big secret? You were the one saying that 16 had been sold or leased. Also you don't seem to mind throwing the TR86 figures round...

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Toyota New Zealand also financed and had built 21 new TR86's and in their second year of their National Championship category status, have sold only 9 of these vehicles, of which at least 3 are owned by Toyota dealers.

So I was just simply wondering how many people had actually forked out their hard earned money to purchase one of these utes...

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by CDM

Whats the big secret? You were the one saying that 16 had been sold or leased. Also you don't seem to mind throwing the TR86 figures round...



So I was just simply wondering how many people had actually forked out their hard earned money to purchase one of these utes...

OK, CDM, lets take you "wondering" at face value. So lets start by defining what you actually mean by, "forked out their Hard earned money" So if you paid a deposit and signed a hire purchase agreement, does that qualify as somebody that actually forked out their hard earned money?

Does somebody that signed a lease agreement and paid the first years lease up front qualify?

Or is it only the buyers who paid the whole $30K plus GST that in your opinion that qualify as one of the private entrants?

[CDM]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

OK, CDM, lets take you "wondering" at face value. So lets start by defining what you actually mean by, "forked out their Hard earned money" So if you paid a deposit and signed a hire purchase agreement, does that qualify as somebody that actually forked out their hard earned money?

Does somebody that signed a lease agreement and paid the first years lease up front qualify?

Or is it only the buyers who paid the whole $30K plus GST that in your opinion that qualify as one of the private entrants?

If your just gunna be a dick then don't worry about it, I was purely interested to know how many have been sold, or as per my original question 'purchased'.

I'm sure you know what PURCHASED means. So yes cash, hp whatever...

I'm also sure you know that leasing something isn't purchasing it.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by CDM

If your just gunna be a dick then don't worry about it, I was purely interested to know how many have been sold, or as per my original question 'purchased'.

I'm sure you know what PURCHASED means. So yes cash, hp whatever...

I'm also sure you know that leasing something isn't purchasing it.

No need to be offence CDM, the rules of the forum are very clear attack the post if you will, but not the poster.

Calling me a "dick" is offensive and as such it might be nice for you to apologise, though I shan't hold my breath in anticipation of such an apology.

[raymond]

Oh bugger...just spilt my coffee. Must have been what that phone call was about.
My view of the world of motorsport has been tilted, but I still advised it was a good opportunity, especially the price!
Now; I wonder if he can borrow it on Monday as well so he can help me move some old furniture?

[HProject]

Originally Posted by raymond

Oh bugger...just spilt my coffee. Must have been what that phone call was about.
My view of the world of motorsport has been tilted, but I still advised it was a good opportunity, especially the price!
Now; I wonder if he can borrow it on Monday as well so he can help me move some old furniture?

Oh, they're getting rid of some of the old furniture at Motorsport NZ?

[NZSTfan]

^^roflmao!!

[raymond]

Originally Posted by HProject

Oh, they're getting rid of some of the old furniture at Motorsport NZ?

Geez;...I hope not, we cant afford to replace it!

[flyingduck]

I see one of the Ute drivers found the cause of his lack of horsepower he had in race 2 he left the AC on, that's Gold.

Good racing but would like to see more passing, I know it's hard with such equal vehicles.

[NZSTfan]

Heres one for you fd....the laptimes for the Ssangyongs in the dry where comparable to a mid pack 2kcup car in the wet at the same track. Speed is not their thing thats for Sure.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Heres one for you fd....the laptimes for the Ssangyongs in the dry where comparable to a mid pack 2kcup car in the wet at the same track. Speed is not their thing thats for Sure.

I did a twilight trackday last Wednesday at Hampton where a couple of utes were out testing. I was in a relatively slow car anyway but I was convinced they had problems because they were going so slow, but apparently that's how fast they go?

What are their times around Hampton, because I would put them in mid-high 1:30's?

[flyingduck]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Heres one for you fd....the laptimes for the Ssangyongs in the dry where comparable to a mid pack 2kcup car in the wet at the same track. Speed is not their thing thats for Sure.

2kcup is faster for sure but this class is not designed around speed and really if all the cars are close it shows off the driving ability. I'd like to have a spin in one at some stage just to see how quick I am but I think they need to find a way to make passing easier so the racing is better to watch. In 2kcup as cars are all different there are different strengths to each car so you can see more passing. I don't know how but they need push to pass button.

[mikuni]

The key to good racing in my opinion is grip - cars need to be on the limit of it, irrespective of how fast they may be going. If you think about all the good racing series' over the years, the best ones are generally ones where the cars are well on the limit, whether it be F1, touring cars, or formula ford. Once you introduce big tyres or massive aero without compensating the power to suit, the series becomes boring.

So, SsangYong utes need 155/80/15 biscuits to be exciting.

[GHOGH]

Once you start to change tyres and rims it increases the costs.
To have a A1GP like power boost where it changes the mapping for a few times per race, use a piggy back engine control unit and give a few kw extra for 15 seconds for three times per race.
The best 2k car is like 1.22 for Hampton Downs and the best Ssangyong ute was 1.31

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by GHOGH

Once you start to change tyres and rims it increases the costs.
To have a A1GP like power boost where it changes the mapping for a few times per race, use a piggy back engine control unit and give a few kw extra for 15 seconds for three times per race.
The best 2k car is like 1.22 for Hampton Downs and the best Ssangyong ute was 1.31

The Utes aren't turbo as far as I'm aware, and only make 110kW, so I would suggest a power boost button to remap that software would be barely noticeable. It really would be much cheaper to just limit grip.

The times that some 2kcup cars are doing around Hampton is astounding. I'd be very surprised if they are standard, let alone cost anything near $2000, but that's for another thread.

[flyingduck]

Originally Posted by mikuni

The Utes aren't turbo as far as I'm aware, and only make 110kW, so I would suggest a power boost button to remap that software would be barely noticeable. It really would be much cheaper to just limit grip.

The times that some 2kcup cars are doing around Hampton is astounding. I'd be very surprised if they are standard, let alone cost anything near $2000, but that's for another thread.

Interesting with the tyres, what sort of tyres do they use?

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by flyingduck

Interesting with the tyres, what sort of tyres do they use?

Hi FD, we use bog standard Federal road tyre's, however we will be testing some DOT rated tyre's in the new year plus a new six speed gearbox, and a revised disk braked rear end with a Detroit locker, that Ssangyong Korea have offered us.

If we adopt any or all of these upgrades all 30 utes will be upgraded at no cost to our SRS teams. I think most fair minded people would agree that the utes have provided affordable most racing with excellent media and TV coverage, which is what we set out to do a lit over one year ago.

I recorded the 3 SRS utes races from Hampton Downs and sat down and watched them last night and was very proud to 28 utes battling it out up and down the big feild great TV coverage even if I have to say so myself.

A very big thank you to Nigel Carpenter and David Turner for putting together such an excellent Magazine style TV package, that I understand will also be available on demand at TV3 later on today.

What a breath of fresh air little Christina Orr is, two young kid's, mom and dad team and taking it to the boy's, calls a spade a spade and gives as good as she gets, cant wait for Puke its going to be 'all on' for young and old!

My money is on Christina for the round win.

[GHOGH]

The engine in the SARS ute is similar to the Merc m111.970.
At 110 kW the engine is suitable for low grade petrol.
This chip claims 122 kW from the 2.3 on high grade fuel.
http://www.powerchipgroup.com/datasheets/5/MER0077.pdf
So there is at least a likely 122kW in the Actyon 2.3 litre.
I would guess a ute with 12 extra kilowatts might be able to pass a ute with 12 less kilowatts down the length of the straight on most NZ tracks.


Are the utes wheel dyno tested before each event or otherwise checked for conformity?

The difficulty of passing is readily apparent in the Aus supercars where they are tapped out at 600 hp and going the same speed, almost every passing attempt is a crash or brake lock up when it does not work.
A push to pass (run 550 hp and 600 hp on the pass) on the Aus SCs might make the racing look better than the processions they have had for years.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by GHOGH

The engine in the SARS ute is similar to the Merc m111.970.
At 110 kW the engine is suitable for low grade petrol.
This chip claims 122 kW from the 2.3 on high grade fuel.
http://www.powerchipgroup.com/datasheets/5/MER0077.pdf
So there is at least a likely 122kW in the Actyon 2.3 litre.
I would guess a ute with 12 extra kilowatts might be able to pass a ute with 12 less kilowatts down the length of the straight on most NZ tracks.


Are the utes wheel dyno tested before each event or otherwise checked for conformity?

The difficulty of passing is readily apparent in the Aus supercars where they are tapped out at 600 hp and going the same speed, almost every passing attempt is a crash or brake lock up when it does not work.
A push to pass (run 550 hp and 600 hp on the pass) on the Aus SCs might make the racing look better than the processions they have had for years.

In so far as chipping [re-programing] the vehicles we have already been there and done that, and until we fix the fairly obvious wheel spin issue there is very little point in increasing the engine performance. As already said, we are looking at testing a new rear differential unit with disk brakes and a Detroit locker, which is available from Ssangyong Korea, and if we decide to go that way we could then look at replacing the standard ECU with an aftermarket unit for a lot less money than Powerchip want.

FYI, we have already tested an aftermarket ECU which when calibrated easily delivered 25 BHP and 14 FLb's more torque, however it was less than .5 of a second faster around Hampton Downs in a back to back test and just wheel spun like crazy.

I am not at all convinced we need to introduce a "push to pass" system, as I think the current racing is sorting out the best drivers, and with all 30 SRS utes entered for Pukekohe it promises be a torrid battle, let the battle begin!

[mikuni]

Sounds good Mark. I would encourage just upgrading the diff first, and seeing how that goes to correct the wheel spin and perhaps introduce a little more oversteer, which sill surely help the young drivers develop their skills. Retaining the lower grip tyres will also keep the possibility of making mistakes I spoke about earlier. The utes appeared to have enough turn in and grip in the corners from what I could see, but their exit was poor, which was probably induced by the single wheel spinning due to the open diff.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by mikuni

Sounds good Mark. I would encourage just upgrading the diff first, and seeing how that goes to correct the wheel spin and perhaps introduce a little more oversteer, which sill surely help the young drivers develop their skills. Retaining the lower grip tyres will also keep the possibility of making mistakes I spoke about earlier. The utes appeared to have enough turn in and grip in the corners from what I could see, but their exit was poor, which was probably induced by the single wheel spinning due to the open diff.

All good points Mikuni thank you for your input, and yes the new diff plus the six speed gearbox will be the most likely upgrades for next season. Gene Rollinson is now our official Ssangyong ute test driver as he will no longer be competing in the Series due to his new boss making him work weekends--- I thought there was a law against that!!

Ben Dallas, former Suzuki Cup and BMW-MINI Series champion is the latest experienced driver to throw his hat into the ring, and will replace Matt Lockwood who struggled to find form in these challenging vehicles at Hampton Downs. We have an additional two vehicles entered for Pukekohe however the drivers are still to be announced at this point in time.

15 plus SRS ute's will also enjoy a pre-Pukekohe hit-out this Sunday, at the same circuit, so the pressure is obviously mounting to get in as much seat time as is possible in the vehicles.