Dutch 240z race car

[phhok]

Originally Posted by PZR

phhok,
Ben's car is not an 'ex-Works' ( Nissan ) rally car, it is an ex-Janspeed car. It has a long and very interesting history ( which Ben is continuing in his competition use of the car ) but it is not an ex-Works Nissan competition car.

Your countryman ( also participating in this thread ) 'z-spec' is the owner of one of the genuine ex-Works 240Z rally cars that we have been talking about in some of Ben's thread.

PZR,
Janos Odor (Janspeed) never was owner of a ex works 240z.If Bens car came from Janspeed than is hase a rather long and strange story.
Rob got 4 ex works 240z they where left in France after the Monte.One car the 986 he used for a (fun) race in complete rally trim.Later he used that car to do the Acropolis and the Tap rally.This car was badly damaged by a France Alpine who spun in front of Rob to avoid him he only could steer up to a banking whereby the car ended on his roof.
This car later was completely rebuild and brought up to race standard.
Another car was used in the RAC rally and later that year sold to Tony Fall.
The third car was sold to a Dutch collector
The fourth car was rebuild to a racing car for Hans Ernst and in later sold to Miroux in Belgium, his son is still driving that car in Belgium classic races.
Rob ended his relation with Datsun Nederland whereupon Han Tjan this car to Janspeed brought.Janos Odor build a different turbo engine,placed the steering wheel to the right and a large rear spoiler.
All this should make the car many seconds faster but he never made the same time as Rob in the non-turbo version.
If you like I can send some foto's of the cars.

[PZR]

Originally Posted by phhok

Janos Odor (Janspeed) never was owner of a ex works 240z.If Bens car came from Janspeed than is hase a rather long and strange story.

Yes - that's what I'm saying. Ben's ex-Janspeed car was not built up from an ex-Works 240Z rally car, as far as I am aware. Certainly the bodyshell shows no tell-tale evidence of the usual Works 240Z rally bodyshell modifications. Agreed Ben?

Originally Posted by phhok

Rob got 4 ex works 240z they where left in France after the Monte.One car the 986 he used for a (fun) race in complete rally trim.Later he used that car to do the Acropolis and the Tap rally.This car was badly damaged by a France Alpine who spun in front of Rob to avoid him he only could steer up to a banking whereby the car ended on his roof.
This car later was completely rebuild and brought up to race standard.

I don't believe that Rob Janssen used '986' ( TKS 33 SA 986 ) on the Acropolis and TAP rallies. '986' was driven by Tony Fall on the '71 Monte Carlo Rallye, and Janssen / Dik drove '988' ( TKS 33 SA 988 ) - which was one of the '71 Monte recce cars - on the '71 Acropolis Rally and ( re-registered as '67-58-RU' ) on the '71 TAP Rally. So the Janssen / Dik car on the '71 TAP was not '986', it was was '988' on Dutch regsitration '67-58-RU'.

Originally Posted by phhok

Another car was used in the RAC rally and later that year sold to Tony Fall.

Be careful here, as the ex-Works car '987' ( now on a Dutch registration plate after it's Japanese 'carnet' registration plate expired ) that Janssen & Dik drove on the 1971 RAC Rally had previously been used as a recce / service car on the '71 Monte Carlo Rallye, and by Tony Fall on the '71 TAP Rally. It was not sold to Tony Fall after the '71 RAC Rally. In fact, I don't believe Tony Fall actually ever personally owned an 'ex-Works' 240Z. He drove plenty, but never physically owned one of them.

Originally Posted by phhok

The third car was sold to a Dutch collector

Your countryman ( also participating in this thread! ) 'z-spec' owns this car now. This car is the '71 RAC Rally car ( ex-71 Monte recce / ex-71 TAP ) '67-54-RU' - formerly '987' - of Janssen & Dik.

Also participating in this thread is 'Marcius' - who, I believe, knows Mr Rob Janssen very well indeed.

Originally Posted by phhok

The fourth car was rebuild to a racing car for Hans Ernst and in later sold to Miroux in Belgium, his son is still driving that car in Belgium classic races.

I've heard the story that one of the Miroux brothers' cars is "ex-Works" before - but I have never seen the car in the metal so I could never confirm this for myself. I have seen lots of cars that were supposed to be "ex-Works" but were nothing of the sort, so personally I prefer to reserve judgement until I see the evidence with my own eyes. I'm just being careful, that's all.

Nissan built quite a lot of 240Z and 260Z rally cars, but most of them were destroyed in use or taken apart and used for spare parts. A few went back to Japan in accordance with their carnets, and a ( very ) few still survive here in Europe. Survivors are extremely rare. That is why I am always trying to be careful in identifying them.

If you like I can send some foto's of the cars.

That would be great. I will send you my e-mail address in a PM. Thank you!

[ben240z]

Originally Posted by phhok

Ben,
If you still wish more info of the childhood years of your ex works rally (race)
240z I can probably help you with details and foto's.
You can reach me also on my E-mail adres to write Dutch

Hi many thanks for this. I will write to you at your email and will try to get it written in dutch for you to read easier.


cheers ben

[ben240z]

[QUOTE=PZR]Yes - that's what I'm saying. Ben's ex-Janspeed car was not built up from an ex-Works 240Z rally car, as far as I am aware. Certainly the bodyshell shows no tell-tale evidence of the usual Works 240Z rally bodyshell modifications. Agreed Ben? QUOTE]

You have the advantage over me of knowledge and anominity (unless my deduction from the style of writing leading me to believe that in fact you are the secretive count albrecht is correct)

[PZR]

Originally Posted by ben240z

You have the advantage over me of knowledge and anominity (unless my deduction from the style of writing leading me to believe that in fact you are..........)

Ben - you were on the 'phone to me just the other night!

I thought you knew who PZR is?!

Sent you a PM anyway.

[phhok]

Originally Posted by ben240z

Hi, I am not holding out any false hope at all. The car that I have can without doubt be identified as one that Rob was running on the circuits. From talking to various sources it is definately not the rally shell built into a circuit car. I do have photos of Rob with the car in the pits at I believe Zandvoort, and from them I can identify why there are 2 holes in the rear roof pillar on the car that I have. They match identically the location of the fuel tank breather pipe in the photo.
I took the car to Zandvoort in 2000 to a Z meeting and Han Tjan was good enough to come over to see the car there.
I am interested in any information or lead on the history of the car and what Rob and subsequent drivers achieved with it.
Cheers Ben

Hi Ben,
when you contact PZR he can supply you with all the details of your car,there is a sketch of te modification of the crossmember and lower wishbone.If they match with the subframe of your car then you know that you have the real McCoy. Sorry that I asked you to write a PM in Dutch,I tought you are Dutch to.

[phhok]

Hi PZR,
It looks like Marcius has indeed great knowledge of the cars, only he is wrong one year about the cars used in the Monte this is 1971.But still amazing afther more than 35 years

[phhok]

Originally Posted by kurtiejjj

Sweet all the Datsuns! Absolutely stunning these contributions Haman132!

Interesting bit to read as well! It seems there was a lot of confusion around what group to enter the Sunny car in. Seems Antonides and a certain 'Kamikaas' both drove 'factory' supported Cherry Coupes! This must've been in 1978 then?

Hi kurtiejjj,
I see you are looking for photo's of the Dutch Cherry's I only can help you with some photo's of the 1000 cc car build by Rob Janssen and driven by Ernst Antonides. Ernst was a mechanic in Rob's workshop. Because Rob had some argument with Datsun Netherlands he decided to build one of the first race cherry's in Holland without any support of the importer.
That car was very succesfull and on many occasions faster then the NSU en Fiat's one class higher.

[kurtiejjj]

Originally Posted by phhok

Hi kurtiejjj,
I see you are looking for photo's of the Dutch Cherry's I only can help you with some photo's of the 1000 cc car build by Rob Janssen and driven by Ernst Antonides. Ernst was a mechanic in Rob's workshop. Because Rob had some argument with Datsun Netherlands he decided to build one of the first race cherry's in Holland without any support of the importer.
That car was very succesfull and on many occasions faster then the NSU en Fiat's one class higher.

Hi phhok, any photos of racing Cherry would be nice. Might not be Janspeed but I think it will liven up the thread I started a while ago here:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112285

Hopefully we'll see some photos appearing.

[haman132]

another article from 1971 magazine about dutch rallycar + pics

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...132/img029.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...132/img030.jpg

[haman132]

more pics and story in dutch

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...132/img031.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...132/img032.jpg

[phhok]

Originally Posted by ben240z

Hi many thanks for this. I will write to you at your email and will try to get it written in dutch for you to read easier.


cheers ben

[/IMG]

Ben,some photo's of the 240z story

[haman132]

1977 sunny with other fenders

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...74%20Cars.html

[haman132]

on a great historie pic's website

http://www.racehistorie.nl/cpz/1973-...sun-01_pag.jpg

http://www.racehistorie.nl/cpz/1972-...40Z-02_pag.jpg

http://www.racehistorie.nl/rijders/k...973-12_pag.jpg

http://www.racehistorie.nl/rijders/k...973-09_pag.jpg

http://www.racehistorie.nl/rijders/k...drecht_pag.jpg

http://www.racehistorie.nl/rijders/k...973-02_pag.jpg

http://www.racehistorie.nl/rijders/K...201974_pag.jpg

http://www.racehistorie.nl/rijders/t...cherry_pag.jpg

[phhok]

[z-spec]

Originally Posted by phhok

yes he is still around

I would like to come in contact with Rob and with you ,to talk about my car the 987 and the history , that can be verry interesting ,please send me a PM or a reaction on my mail ad@verkuijlen.demon.nl

[haman132]

another pic

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...132/img035.jpg

[phhok]

Ford F3 engine in old type Datsun Sunny

[kurtiejjj]

phhok, very good you managed to put up one photograph correctly I can already see what the problem is with the other ones; there is two times 'http://' So just remove them, then we can use the links (ok we can copy/paste but some people on here aren't that handy with computers.)

Nice one though, the car seemed to have spun more than 180 degrees

[haman132]

Originally Posted by kurtiejjj

phhok, very good you managed to put up one photograph correctly I can already see what the problem is with the other ones; there is two times 'http://' So just remove them, then we can use the links (ok we can copy/paste but some people on here aren't that handy with computers.)

Nice one though, the car seemed to have spun more than 180 degrees

Sorry but that was mine

[haman132]

Originally Posted by phhok

Ford F3 engine in old type Datsun Sunny

you mean in the other topic ? (cherry sunny)

[phhok]

Originally Posted by haman132

you mean in the other topic ? (cherry sunny)

hi haman132, seems that I am the clown of the side I did not know there is a other topic for the sunny

[haman132]

here are some pics that phhok want to share

more to come later ,enjoy

[kurtiejjj]

@Haman132: You're right. it's your image Should've taken more care and address my post to the right person

@phhok: There is a thread for the Sunny/Cherry. I started it some time ago, you can also find it here on the motorsport history forum, if it isn't on the first page anymore then it is surely on the second page.

[phhok]