Does not wanting to flag make you a bad marshal?

[vintage]

Come on Ex Flagman this should be a good one for you.

[exflagman]

Originally Posted by vintage

Come on Ex Flagman this should be a good one for you.

Me, comment on flagging, at my time of life....

[MotorBreath]

I'm a trainee, and i'm looking forward to spending a bit of time flagging. I want to learn the craft & experience marshalling from a flaggies's perspective. I honestly believe that it will help me in my incident duties. This year so far, i've done 10 days incident, and i have to say that altough i want to experience flagging, i know i'm an incident man... but you never know

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I've successfully signalled 'Car 39 peeing fuel onto the track' from the other side of the circuit. It was a little inventive - Lionel Blair would have been proud of me - and it made the spectators laugh, but I definitely got the message over! ...

Come on. You can't leave it there! Exactly how far did you go in this act of auto mechanical charades to indicate "peeing on the track"? We demand a YouTube video!

[Mike 'Bean' Broadbent]

I know that as what I refer to as an 'experienced trainee' I should get my upgrade by gaining a flagging assessment. Two things have stopped me doing this a) having suffered from tennis elbow on and off for the last two years does not make flagging something easy to undertake. Waving those poles can be quite painful, yes I have tried with husband's set of flags. b) flagging takes a lot of concentration and confidence, I want to be 100% confident to undertake a day's flagging.
I take my role as a marshal seriously and will undertake assessments when I feel that I am ready and confident to do so. An assessment is surely to show someone that you are competant to undertake a role, competance comes with learning and experience.
So to post chiefs who question why I have not done my flagging to get my upgrade, let me decide when I am ready to do my flagging or I may be forced to use those flag poles in a manner which is not PC.
This is Mrs Bean posting this response.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Mike 'Bean' Broadbent

having suffered from tennis elbow on and off for the last two years does not make flagging something easy to undertake. Waving those poles can be quite painful,

As has been said in the past, exceptions can be made for people with legitimate excuses. Get in touch with your club's grading officer, and see if they can help.

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by Mike 'Bean' Broadbent

I ... So to post chiefs who question why I have not done my flagging to get my upgrade, let me decide when I am ready to do my flagging or I may be forced to use those flag poles in a manner which is not PC.
This is Mrs Bean posting this response.

Does that mean that encouragement, help and good advice (c.f. Guinness' post), and which is part of a decent PC's duty, is less than welcome?

[Drummer]

I haven't read through every post here, so I'm sorry if this is repetitive in any way.

As a newbie to marshalling, I really dislike the idea of being forced to do anything, as I'm sure some of you are aware by now, lol! The thought of sitting or standing on a post all day, waving a bit of rag on a pole for, quite possibly, long periods at a time is really not something I'd have in my mind for a good weekend. There again, as is obvious in this topic, there are many differing opinions on it. I think, for me, standing on the wall at the start of a race, yellow in hand, is about as far as I'd like to get into flagging. I wouldn't even want to do a day of it. To be honest, the way I feel about it right now is that if I had to do, say, three days of flagging to upgrade, I'd rather stay as I am.

I'd rather learn the things I'm interested in learning about, like putting out fires and handling situations etc. I'm done with school now, hated the place. You know, where you were forced to learn French and geography? Well, I've never used either, and hope not to, which is the same opinion I have about flagging. Sure, if I'm told to, I can wave a rag on a stick, but I don't ever see myself in the position where I need to be experienced in flagging to do my duties. This thought really confuses me.

Anyway, enough rabbiting on. I hope everyone had a great season this year. Maybe I'll get to do some more events next year, if things don't conspire against me, eh?

[Apple]

Everybody on here and throughout the marshalling world seems to stress that we are all part of a team.
So with that in mind I think that if circumstances make it necessary your needed to do flagging and you do it with a long face all day I would say it does make you less of a team player so therefore not such a good marshal.
No it doesn't make you worse of any individual discipline just not such a good team player.
I prefer incident but will do flagging with a smile, I have learnt since starting marshalling that it makes me feel good to be part of a team which is not the case in most of my working career.
We cant always do exactly what we want in life.
Mick

[Johansen2000]

Originally Posted by Apple

Everybody on here and throughout the marshalling world seems to stress that we are all part of a team.
So with that in mind I think that if circumstances make it necessary your needed to do flagging and you do it with a long face all day I would say it does make you less of a team player so therefore not such a good marshal.
No it doesn't make you worse of any individual discipline just not such a good team player.
I prefer incident but will do flagging with a smile, I have learnt since starting marshalling that it makes me feel good to be part of a team which is not the case in most of my working career.
We cant always do exactly what we want in life.
Mick

If you dont like flagging but your the only person on the post that can flag then you would be playing a hugely important role in that small team and that for me, would make mer very happy to do it

[Bodysnatcher]

.. done with school now, hated the place. You know, where you were forced to learn French and geography? Well, I've never used either, and hope not to..

That kind of limits your horizons mon ami.

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by Drummer

I haven't read through every post here, so I'm sorry if this is repetitive in any way.

As a newbie to marshalling, I really dislike the idea of being forced to do anything, as I'm sure some of you are aware by now, lol! The thought of sitting or standing on a post all day, waving a bit of rag on a pole for, quite possibly, long periods at a time is really not something I'd have in my mind for a good weekend. There again, as is obvious in this topic, there are many differing opinions on it. I think, for me, standing on the wall at the start of a race, yellow in hand, is about as far as I'd like to get into flagging. I wouldn't even want to do a day of it. To be honest, the way I feel about it right now is that if I had to do, say, three days of flagging to upgrade, I'd rather stay as I am.

I'd rather learn the things I'm interested in learning about, like putting out fires and handling situations etc. I'm done with school now, hated the place. You know, where you were forced to learn French and geography? Well, I've never used either, and hope not to, which is the same opinion I have about flagging. Sure, if I'm told to, I can wave a rag on a stick, but I don't ever see myself in the position where I need to be experienced in flagging to do my duties. This thought really confuses me.

Anyway, enough rabbiting on. I hope everyone had a great season this year. Maybe I'll get to do some more events next year, if things don't conspire against me, eh?

Well, you were obviously forced to learn English, for which I would give you an A*. So you are now literate and can express your thoughts clearly to the world at large. Your future is considerably rosier than those who leave school grunting like chimps. I'd say they did you a favour.

In the same vein, wouldn't doing a few days flagging make us 'better' marshals - the marshaling equivalent of swiss army knives? Might it not give us an extra feeling of pride that we have not just earned our red badge but richly deserved it?

Not wanting to flag does not make anyone a bad marshal but I wish there was generally more ambition to go that extra mile; to be, if not a great marshal, at least greater than we are.

We all have the right to be average, and if we all thought like that we'd still be living in caves.



See my sig file for further details.

[MacGWC]

Originally Posted by Apple

Everybody on here and throughout the marshalling world seems to stress that we are all part of a team.
So with that in mind I think that if circumstances make it necessary your needed to do flagging and you do it with a long face all day I would say it does make you less of a team player so therefore not such a good marshal.
No it doesn't make you worse of any individual discipline just not such a good team player.
I prefer incident but will do flagging with a smile, I have learnt since starting marshalling that it makes me feel good to be part of a team which is not the case in most of my working career.
We cant always do exactly what we want in life.
Mick

This, I believe, is precisely the intention of what is being proposed. Some make two days flagging seem like a life sentence!

C'mon chaps and chapesses, it will do us all a bit of good to know more of the jobs on circuit around our own particular task - and no one expects perfect flagging from anyone new to the job. But this is how we all learned to flag, spending some time with experienced flag marshals and observers, who were and are always happy to share their experience with others.

Surely, this is what marshalling is all about?

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by MacGWC

But this is how we all learned to flag, spending some time with experienced flag marshals and observers

My very first day flagging was under the supervision of a first class marshal (but on that occasion I was told to not bother with the blue flags). My second day flagging, and my first blue flagging experience was accompanied on post only by one other marshal who, like myself at the time, had less than 20 days experience.

Deep end?

[juliet]

this thread is a funny one, if you look at my original post you will see i was very against being forced to flag and not looking forward to it but reading the discussion on here is starting to sway me to dropping the prejudice and giving it a go with an open mind. we have all done meetings where there are only a couple of people per post if everyone has a mixed skill set it certainly makes like easier for the people allocating us.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by juliet

if everyone has a mixed skill set it certainly makes like easier for the people allocating us.

Which is precisely why the MSA insist on it.

... aaaaaaaaaaaand relax!

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Drummer

I haven't read through every post here, so I'm sorry if this is repetitive in any way.



As a newbie to marshalling, I really dislike the idea of being forced to do anything, as I'm sure some of you are aware by now, lol! The thought of sitting or standing on a post all day, waving a bit of rag on a pole for, quite possibly, long periods at a time is really not something I'd have in my mind for a good weekend. There again, as is obvious in this topic, there are many differing opinions on it. I think, for me, standing on the wall at the start of a race, yellow in hand, is about as far as I'd like to get into flagging. I wouldn't even want to do a day of it. To be honest, the way I feel about it right now is that if I had to do, say, three days of flagging to upgrade, I'd rather stay as I am.



I'd rather learn the things I'm interested in learning about, like putting out fires and handling situations etc. I'm done with school now, hated the place. You know, where you were forced to learn French and geography? Well, I've never used either, and hope not to, which is the same opinion I have about flagging. Sure, if I'm told to, I can wave a rag on a stick, but I don't ever see myself in the position where I need to be experienced in flagging to do my duties. This thought really confuses me.



Anyway, enough rabbiting on. I hope everyone had a great season this year. Maybe I'll get to do some more events next year, if things don't conspire against me, eh?

of all the people expressing a dislike for flagging ive rarely heard someone so repelled by it, not even wanting to do a full day of startline yellow flagging, id love to do that! have you done flagging ever before? if you havent its ok doing flagging if you need to if youve done it before, (there's basics and there's the basic basics!) but if you havent and havent asked advice its all too easy to miss an essential flag like a yellow or take the right action for a pull off.

flaggies miss 1 or 2 every so often like myself, the hard to determine odd blue in a practice but theyre the minor ones and they know exactly where theyve gone wrong.

most flaggies feel comfortable in races doing blues, its almost bread and butter stuff but no matter what, if youre the only capable willing guy there and if the race calls for ablue, youve got to blue. if youve not done it before, youll either end up doing it a few posts too early or do it too late and someone worst case will end up binning it.

it pays at least to do half a day, i certainly like to encourage people to flag as much as i can either if theyre "bored" if theyre that way inclined, or a circuit trainee like i was the end of last year!

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Apple

So with that in mind I think that if circumstances make it necessary your needed to do flagging and you do it with a long face all day I would say it does make you less of a team player so therefore not such a good marshal.

i think i got the clear meaning in that you mentioned circumstances so youre comment doesnt apply to dedicated flaggies

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

My very first day flagging was under the supervision of a first class marshal (but on that occasion I was told to not bother with the blue flags). My second day flagging, and my first blue flagging experience was accompanied on post only by one other marshal who, like myself at the time, had less than 20 days experience.

Deep end?

dont want to seem better than thou but i started flagging on my first day...unaccompanied

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by NewYankee01

dont want to seem better than thou but i started flagging on my first day...unaccompanied

And you tell the kids of today that, and they don't believe you /BestYorkshireAccent

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by MacGWC

But this is how we all learned to flag, spending some time with experienced flag marshals and observers, who were and are always happy to share their experience with others.

Surely, this is what marshalling is all about?

We did and it was. Under the new grading scheme, unfortunately it isn't. Flagging is now imposed very early on when people are still learning to read the race, keep themselves and others safe and haven't realised flagging can be enjoyable just because it's not part of the action, and then having done that they're deemed to know all about it without further instruction. Whatever the MSA is proposing as changes to the scheme we have to get rid of those two deterrents by making flagging a full, trainable discipline and not requiring it for track upgrades. We should still encourage people to try it - under supervision - when numbers allow so that they can find out if they like it and cover it if needed when they don't.

Originally Posted by juliet

the discussion on here is starting to sway me to dropping the prejudice and giving it a go with an open mind.

In the words of Churchill, you should try everything in life once, except Morris Dancing and Incest...

I know I don't much like paddock/assembly/pits and am not much good at Post Chiefing because I've tried them. If anyone's on post with me and fancies trying flags, even if only for a few sessions, I'm always very happy to have you on the flag point with me and hopefully give you some useful training.

[Ubique]

Originally Posted by NewYankee01

of all the people expressing a dislike for flagging ive rarely heard someone so repelled by it, not even wanting to do a full day of startline yellow flagging, id love to do that!

Ahh but the yellow flags on startline have nothing to do with flaggies and are manned as part of the Pits/Startline Specialists Job

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by juliet

this thread is a funny one, if you look at my original post you will see i was very against being forced to flag and not looking forward to it but reading the discussion on here is starting to sway me to dropping the prejudice and giving it a go with an open mind. we have all done meetings where there are only a couple of people per post if everyone has a mixed skill set it certainly makes like easier for the people allocating us.

good for you! i knew youd want to do it eventually, hopefully, everyone should!
i dont think itd make the CM's job easier unless they knew what EVERY marshal could do but itll certainly make life easier if everyone who does incident could do a couple of flagging days here and there itd eventually make things a bit safer

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

And you tell the kids of today that, and they don't believe you /BestYorkshireAccent

?? erm. i dont know how to take that?

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Woolley

We did and it was. Under the new grading scheme, unfortunately it isn't. Flagging is now imposed very early on when people are still learning to read the race, keep themselves and others safe and haven't realised flagging can be enjoyable just because it's not part of the action, and then having done that they're deemed to know all about it without further instruction. Whatever the MSA is proposing as changes to the scheme we have to get rid of those two deterrents by making flagging a full, trainable discipline and not requiring it for track upgrades. We should still encourage people to try it - under supervision - when numbers allow so that they can find out if they like it and cover it if needed when they don't.

well, how very eloquently said?!!!!!!!!