TLs, TLs, TLs??? - Page 4

NZSTfan · 28 May 2013, 09:27 (Ref:3254407)

Like you GB, I have no answers to this conundrum

To be frank I think there will still be colossal egos involved, and the ST split has caused quite a major stir in the ranks, and certain people in the mix just can't accept facts and the state of affairs that we find ourselves in now.

To people like you and I (i.e. devoted fans of V8 based motorsport) the only reasonable outcome is quite clear-cut. But we are not the ones making the decisions and signing the cheques. But there does seem to be a consensus that says that ST's are top dog, but talk means nothing without actions.

Remember only a few month ago (well, more like 6 or so

) there were press releases stating that the two groups would work together, and we all felt that things were progressing, but it all fell flat.

I just hope that this recent AGM has calibrated MSNZ to be focused on how to work this out going forward, for the betterment of the sport, the competitors, sponsors and fans (in that order to be honest)

Swedish Brick · 28 May 2013, 09:40 (Ref:3254413)

When a successor to the TLs was mooted wasn't there a commitment by MSNZ to sanction the TLs for X period. When does that run out. Maybe that offers some answers

NZSTfan · 28 May 2013, 09:53 (Ref:3254420)

I believe that period (and happy to be corrected brick) was the 2013/14 season.

I was reading some old threads a while back and that was one of the things that popped out at me.

That is, come the 2013/14 series, the current TL spec cars would be ineligible for the Gold Star NZV8 series, meaning only TLX cars would be eligible.

But like I say, happy to be corrected/re-directed

Swedish Brick · 28 May 2013, 09:55 (Ref:3254422)

I'm asking coz I don't know either

NZSTfan · 28 May 2013, 10:07 (Ref:3254427)

you and me both eh

GT 86 · 28 May 2013, 20:41 (Ref:3254704)

Guys, I dont give a crap how many classes there really is, we now have MX-5 and 2K Cup to name two recent ones. All I and a lot of others want to see is some normality. Get Brian Budd and Shayne Harris out of the middle of this so the sport can then follow a path that is for the good of the sport and everyone involved, not what they think.Then they may get back some of there competitors and even gain new customers, not that thats been a priority in the last two years.

CDM · 28 May 2013, 21:13 (Ref:3254726)

I agree with GT86, if Billy, Bobby & Jimbo want to set up a 'new' series for TL's or Ute's or Honda's, MX5's or just for Red Racing Cars that is fine & their decision. However I don't see how or why MSNZ should be involved, apart from administration stuff, sanctioning etc.

My views are the best classes are those run by the actual competitors where the competitors made decisions on the path & rules etc for the series, which I believe is basically where VEEGA came from.

Now if the VEEGA members (competitors) voted in Lancaster & Co to run it & they decided that V8ST was the place to be then so be it, that decision has ultimately come from the competitors. If others think that can run a better series elsewhere, then that's also fine the competitors will decide whats best for them & enter one or other (or both), but MSNZ shouldn't have fingers in either pie's.

I don't think that MSNZ should be involved in any shape or form with the promotion/ownership of ANY series, except deciding where their NZ championship title are awarded. If they have made a commitment to TL until 2013/14 that's fine as its not like the TL cars have no-where to run... unlike the Mini's, PRS & other 5 minute wonder classes.

Goat Boy · 28 May 2013, 21:31 (Ref:3254739)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDM

I agree with GT86, if Billy, Bobby & Jimbo want to set up a 'new' series for TL's or Ute's or Honda's, MX5's or just for Red Racing Cars that is fine & their decision. However I don't see how or why MSNZ should be involved, apart from administration stuff, sanctioning etc.

My views are the best classes are those run by the actual competitors where the competitors made decisions on the path & rules etc for the series, which I believe is basically where VEEGA came from.

Now if the VEEGA members (competitors) voted in Lancaster & Co to run it & they decided that V8ST was the place to be then so be it, that decision has ultimately come from the competitors. If others think that can run a better series elsewhere, then that's also fine the competitors will decide whats best for them & enter one or other (or both), but MSNZ shouldn't have fingers in either pie's.

I don't think that MSNZ should be involved in any shape or form with the promotion/ownership of ANY series, except deciding where their NZ championship title are awarded. If they have made a commitment to TL until 2013/14 that's fine as its not like the TL cars have no-where to run... unlike the Mini's, PRS & other 5 minute wonder classes.

Well said, and the point is that MNZ having involvement with a "new" series that some may see as being directly in competition with ST must be a conflict of interest. Not that they seem to care about level playing fields, or at least Budd and Harris don't.

Mark Petch · 28 May 2013, 21:35 (Ref:3254740)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

I believe that period (and happy to be corrected brick) was the 2013/14 season.

I was reading some old threads a while back and that was one of the things that popped out at me.

That is, come the 2013/14 series, the current TL spec cars would be ineligible for the Gold Star NZV8 series, meaning only TLX cars would be eligible.

But like I say, happy to be corrected/re-directed

NZSTfan,

TL cars were officially given the 'kiss of death' by MSNZ two years ago, when they and TMC conspired with Inky and co to introduce the Mitchell TRX car.

If things had of worked out for TMC and their principal shareholder MSNZ, there would be no dual championship, but of course it didnt because, to few people, many of them with very loud voices did not put their money were their mouth was and buy a TLX car. This effectively left MSN "holding the Baby" and to scared to drop it!

They now know that they need to combine TL cars with their new TLX cars to make up a reasonable field, and they will continue to woo the TL owners, until their TLX category can stand on its own, however long that may be.

Ian Booth, is a close personal friend of the Ross's and is merely doing they're bidding, as the Ross's own, or did until recently 2 Tl cars as does Inky etc, so they are guaranteed not to support NZV8CC initiative in supporting V8ST.

CDM sums the whole fiasco up in his post below.

Quote:

#82
CDM
Rookie

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 61

I agree with GT86, if Billy, Bobby & Jimbo want to set up a 'new' series for TL's or Ute's or Honda's, MX5's or just for Red Racing Cars that is fine & their decision. However I don't see how or why MSNZ should be involved, apart from administration stuff, sanctioning etc.

My views are the best classes are those run by the actual competitors where the competitors made decisions on the path rules etc for the series, which I believe is basically where VEEGA came from.
Now if the VEEGA members voted in Lancaster & Co to run it & they decided that V8ST was the place to be then so be it, that decision has ultimately come from the competitors. If others think that can run a better series elsewhere, then that's also fine the competitors will decide whats best for them & enter one or other (or both), but MSNZ shouldn't have fingers in either pie's.

I don't think that MSNZ should be involved in any shape or form with the promotion/ownership of ANY series, except deciding where their NZ championship title are awarded. If they have made a commitment to TL until 2013/14 that's fine as its not like the TL cars have no-where to run... unlike the Mini's, PRS & other 5 minute wonder classes. End quote.

Totally agree with your post.

Swedish Brick · 28 May 2013, 22:12 (Ref:3254752)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT 86

Guys, I dont give a crap how many classes there really is, we now have MX-5 and 2K Cup to name two recent ones. All I and a lot of others want to see is some normality. Get Brian Budd and Shayne Harris out of the middle of this so the sport can then follow a path that is for the good of the sport and everyone involved, not what they think.Then they may get back some of there competitors and even gain new customers, not that thats been a priority in the last two years.

I thought MSNZ were only promoting last season due to things falling apart after class commitments were made and after that season they won't be promoting the next.
The company change was swapping from MSNZ to the entrants group wasn't it? Or have I read it wrong.
What I'm getting at is where is the link to MSNZ promoting in the future.
It may have been posted before but across different threads it gets confusing.

Also GT86 can you please clarify your previous statements

promax · 28 May 2013, 22:27 (Ref:3254758)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

The company change was swapping from MSNZ to the entrants group wasn't it?

that's how I read it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Also GT86 can you please clarify your previous statements

agree! GT86 has made a number of claims he or she has yet to back up.

Goat Boy · 28 May 2013, 23:00 (Ref:3254765)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

I thought MSNZ were only promoting last season due to things falling apart after class commitments were made and after that season they won't be promoting the next.
The company change was swapping from MSNZ to the entrants group wasn't it? Or have I read it wrong.
What I'm getting at is where is the link to MSNZ promoting in the future.
It may have been posted before but across different threads it gets confusing.

That was also what I thought, but this has still not happened. It is still 100% owned by MSNZ, the registered office is Map and Associates (Martin Fine) and the director change happened way back in March. The Companies website might be a little out of date, but it is not as bad as that.

Which means that MSNZ are 100% owners (and will still be partial owners if the share transfer ever actually happens) of a commercially run series (regardless of whether it is in direct competition with another series). I thought they had said they weren't going to do that after they lost all that money with TMC/MPL.

Swedish Brick · 29 May 2013, 00:42 (Ref:3254789)

I need to go look that up later, but Fine is no longer MSNZ. And who are the directors? Also who is what and who owns what? With the various V8 names thrown around I've lost track of everything :/

Swedish Brick · 29 May 2013, 02:11 (Ref:3254796)

Veega and New Zealand V8s limited amalgamated and became NZV8s Limited.
So its not a new company set up.
The shareholders are many, incl both ST and Non ST V8 racers/owners.
I can't see any MSNZ owenership there.

Am I looking at the right company?

mountainstar · 29 May 2013, 02:35 (Ref:3254799)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

But what is the point? If it was unanimously agreed at the MNZ conference (as quoted elsewhere) that ST are where it's at, what is the point of setting up a rival series basically owned by MNZ?

Can't understand why people keep blowing air into a big balloon with holes in it.

The public and competitors voted with their feet. Supertourers are where it's at and for those with 6-10 year old TL cars, the CC already exists for them.

Mark Petch · 29 May 2013, 02:44 (Ref:3254800)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Veega and New Zealand V8s limited amalgamated and became NZV8s Limited.
So its not a new company set up.
The shareholders are many, incl both ST and Non ST V8 racers/owners.
I can't see any MSNZ owenership there.

Am I looking at the right company?

Warwick,

No you are not correct.

FYI. VEEGA owned 50% of NZV8's Ltd, in a JV with TMC.

TMC terminated the JV with VEEGA, and as a result of that termination, had to hand their 50% back to VEEGA for $1.

NZv8's Ltd, thus became a 100% wholly owned subsidiary company of VEEGA.

Greg Lancaster and associates rolled the Inky controlled VEEGA board at the last AGM and recently amalgamated the two companies into one company, NZV8 LTD.

NZV8 LTD has nothing to do with latter Company, New Zealand V8's Limited, which was set up by Martin Fine and Kerry Cooper as a back stop company, when they were wrestling with VEEGA, and much later handed back to MSNZ. when TMC folded.

Swedish Brick · 29 May 2013, 03:06 (Ref:3254803)

Did I quote the amalgamation document on the company website wrong? Because thats what it said

Goat Boy · 29 May 2013, 03:12 (Ref:3254806)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Veega and New Zealand V8s limited amalgamated and became NZV8s Limited.
So its not a new company set up.
The shareholders are many, incl both ST and Non ST V8 racers/owners.
I can't see any MSNZ owenership there.

Am I looking at the right company?

Nope, look up NZ V8 Touring Cars Ltd.

Swedish Brick · 29 May 2013, 03:18 (Ref:3254807)

Yeah saw that one as well. Its been around a while!
Is it confirmed that company is promoting a TL series?

promax · 29 May 2013, 03:48 (Ref:3254810)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Can't understand why people keep blowing air into a big balloon with holes in it.

The public and competitors voted with their feet. Supertourers are where it's at and for those with 6-10 year old TL cars, the CC already exists for them.

since only 6-7 CC cars are turning up at ST meetings.. clearly not everyone feels that way.

Icarus_nz · 29 May 2013, 04:52 (Ref:3254818)

Quote:

Originally Posted by promax

since only 6-7 CC cars are turning up at ST meetings.. clearly not everyone feels that way.

Since only seven or eight tl's turn up to summer series (excepting v8sc) clearly not everybody feels that way either

Foster and develop Motorsport? I think not

GT 86 · 29 May 2013, 05:29 (Ref:3254821)

Also GT86 can you please clarify your previous statements[/QUOTE]

What do you need clarified?

promax · 29 May 2013, 05:35 (Ref:3254822)

exactly!! so why is NZV8s being turned into CC.. when clearly running a long stretched out season as support for ST.. at only a couple of upper north island tracks.. clearly doesn't work? where is the middle ground? wasn't the idea for to TL class (under whatever name they're using these days) to keep their own identity and be a national class.. rather than being used as padding for the rather underwhelming ST support classes? looks like there's been no progress been made at all?

Swedish Brick · 29 May 2013, 06:33 (Ref:3254828)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT 86

Also GT86 can you please clarify your previous statements

What do you need clarified?[/QUOTE]

Really? In the ST news thread you made some statements which you were asked there to clarify and to go in to more detail. Ie less innuendo and name some names etc.
On page 4 in this thread I copied them again asking the same questions, others joined in in both threads...

"GB, I would suggest NZV8 Touring Cars Ltd, the new new V8 category, helped of course by MSNZ, shafted the old category last month and blew off Lyall Williamson and Greg Lancaster in the process, have instructed their members to stay away from CC. It was public the abuse that LW and GL got at Puke from some TL guys. There seems to be a bigger stronger divide than ever before, thanks to the new directors and some old NZV8 leaders getting what they wanted before, only to have the process delayed by the new board of LW and GL heading up NZV8."

and

It is common knowledge that the new V8 board was handed a massive hospital pass thanks to some handy legal bills being passed on by people who satisfied their ego and then passed on the bill. One hopes that those bills and accounts get passed back to the people concerned via a receiver.
"What I do know is there is a group of people who are trying to stop any further progression with ST and CC and those same people were involved in the original V8 verse V8ST ego ride and legal battle and perhaps the same ones that landed their legal bills onto the now limbo NZV8 company....?"

How? and who are NZV8 Touring Cars ltd? They are not in the companies register. How did they blow off the directors?
What was the public abuse and who did it come from? I thought those two were working with the CC and ST?
What and whose legals bills? Who is the group trying to stop any further progression?

GT 86 · 29 May 2013, 06:57 (Ref:3254833)

How? and who are NZV8 Touring Cars ltd? They are not in the companies register. How did they blow off the directors?
What was the public abuse and who did it come from? I thought those two were working with the CC and ST?
What and whose legals bills? Who is the group trying to stop any further progression?[/QUOTE]

New Zealand V8 Touring Cars Ltd, its there. This new company has been formed and GL and LW werent told about it.
I am not going into the abuse thing, it was in front of a number of people and aimed at them both.
Inky's legal bills for the fight against V8ST were handed to Veega.

The same group of previous Veega representatives are tied up in the new company.