Merger Imminent?

[Amar7605]

Originally Posted by sceptic

The problem is that especially Champ Car doesn't have enough cars to fulfil its promoter minimums. They have contracts with these circuits guaranteeing that 16 cars will race (18 for the European races), and there are massive financial penalties if they can't do that.

At the moment Champ Car has a grid which is less than half the promoter minimum.
Indycar is probably two cars short of its promoter minimum.
Together they already have well over 20 cars, and the strengths of not competing against each other means other teams are more likely to commit.

Mar 29 - Homestead-Miami
Apr 6 - St. Petersburg
Apr 20 - Long Beach
Apr 27 - Houston
May 25 - Indianapolis 500
Jun 1 - Milwaukee
Jun 7 - Texas
Jun 22 - Iowa
Jun 28 - Richmond
Jul 6 - Watkins Glen
Jul 12 - Nashville
Jul 20 - Edmonton
Aug 9 - Kentucky
Aug 24 - Infineon
Aug 31 - Belle Isle Detroit
Sep 7 - Chicagoland
Oct 26 - Surfers Paradise

These races will probably get a spot because they are profitable:
- Cleveland
- Mexico City
- Motegi, Japan

I would think that Motegi would have to be on the schedule because of Honda. They would insist upon it. Cleveland would be great as a night race, and Mexico City often draws large crowds.

This is a good schedule, but I would replace Watkins Glen with Toronto and Kemtucky with Road America. On the other hand, having Toronto would make this schedule pretty street-course heavy and have only a handful of permanant road courses. Having said that, Toronto needs to fit on a merged schedule somewhere. It's a great course with great fans.

[Kieran20]

Originally Posted by Alex K

Had KK finally admit that he doesn't have chance with ICS? God, why did he come with this CCWS sick from beginning idea? We would've had one series for 5 years now with only. Come on Tony, we need one series, take that teams and let's forget about CC and those lost years, I feel there're gonna be one series soon.

IndyCAR/CART/champ car, was there way before the irl, it was not an idea, but a motive to keep what was one of the best series in the world alive. TG's idea of his own series is what has caused this, not champ car and KK.

I hope the merger goes ahead, with road america included, thats a venue that cannot be missed.

[JohnSSC]

What we need here is for this to be fixed.

We really don't need to rehash who did what to whom.

Bottom line: a merged series will result in some people being happy and some annoyed with what was or was not included. That said, it is clear that two series cannot continue to survive. They need to merge and they need to do it soon.

Just fix it.

[Last2LiftOff]

Really. If a merger happens, the rest of this stuff will sort itself out, in all its commercial glory. It's a heck of an opportunity if they'd just get over themselves.

[indycool]

Last 2, think you got it with "commercial glory." Financially solid events (meaning well-sponsored and well-attended) would be kept and the others would fall by the wayside.

Best example of this is Cleveland. It's always a good race on TV. Like many street courses, they can't build enough seats to make out. It's been handed off from promoter to promoter throughout its existence and no one has been able to "make it" financially there.

It's a vicious circle. The fan and TV viewer hafta get a good show. The sponsors hafta get exposure. The promoter must make money. The sanctioning body must gets its fee from the promoter to cover expenses and pay the purse. The teams and drivers must get paid. If any of those falls out of balance, the whole thing breaks down.

[Fish_Flake]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

What we need here is for this to be fixed.

We really don't need to rehash who did what to whom.

Bottom line: a merged series will result in some people being happy and some annoyed with what was or was not included. That said, it is clear that two series cannot continue to survive. They need to merge and they need to do it soon.

Just fix it.

Agreed. Let's let bygones be bygones, even if that means acknowledging that Tony George is not the Antichrist. We've known for the last twelve years that he couldn't simply be pushed under the rug in any attempt, so why keep perpetuating the blame game at this point?

[gttouring]

that's funny true
TG held out until he had the best and only solution...he allowed IRl and grew it into CART light and now it will be what we had and wanted all along..
Well long live Indycar

[Fish_Flake]

Ultimately, even though I'd rather see Tony George having a diminished role in the operations of the series, I must say this. A series with 30-plus regular entrants, well-attended race venues, and room to grow is much more appealing than anything we have now...even if Tony is in charge.

[CaptainRandom]

Personally, I thought the deal that was rumored before sounded about perfect. I believe that included cars at what-not for CC teams as well as Edmonton, Toronto, Surfers, Mexico City, and Long Beach.

The only thing to improve it would be to include Cleveland and Road America, but as many of you have already mentioned, the schedule gets pretty fat.

I'm in agreement that it just seems too late to do it for 2008. Scheduling conflicts are everywhere, and it wouldn't do anyone any good to drop an event for one year and bring it back the next. I say business as planned for '08, and work now to get the deal done for '09 and create an amazing schedule that includes the core CC races.

(It might be necessary to drop a couple of the less successful IRL events but I don't follow the IRL so I don't know what those would be.)

Waiting to '09 is also the best thing for the teams that spent a bunch of money on this year already.

[Craig]

I think that we're all missing the obvious here with talk of a merge in 2009. Neither series is sustainable in its current format for another season. Simple as. It's a case of make it work NOW. Or die. If a couple of teams go to the wall as a result then so be it.

When it comes to dropping dates from the schedule - and any possible court action - then remember that Champcar will cease to be so who will the promoters be suing? It surely won't be the Indycar Series or whatever it'll be called as all they did was attract some teams and personnel previously attached to a now defunct rival series. If they do go after them then, well, they can always chuck em a bone and promise a return to the schedule in 2009...

[BootsOntheSide]

I think both championships can get a reasonable 2008 grid (by funding some cars themselves) and stage perfectly good 2008 championships across a reasonable range of circuits. The issue is - would a combined series be better than that, even allowing for lost races this year? I can understand why some suspect that IRL problems are the root of this particular immediate offer, even if the long-term result benefits both parties. Maybe one option is to run most or all currently-scheduled races, either for one series or both, and form a combined championship table for this year, before arranging one series for 2009?

[Alex K]

Wait a minute guys, it doesn't look to me as a merger it just looks like KK surrunders (at last, why didn't he let George take everything 5 years ago?) and IRL takes the teams and some circuit promoters on their side. I really doubt, if it happens ofc, cause KK & Co. showed few times that they do not care about this sport, all the teams jump the fence, some teams may do partial season, Bachelart moans, Coyne no cash again, PCM - who knows? What's interesting CC bosses didn't even sy that they surrunder to promotersand team owners, what is unbelieveble in pro business!

[sceptic]

I wonder if as part of this, we will see Indycar moving to a Cosworth engine in 2010?

[indycool]

sceptic, I doubt that Cosworth or Pi is part of any "melding" package of the two series. But Dan Davis of Ford said long ago that Ford would like to compete. It's possible Ford would badge the Cosworth for use in a combined series.

[fomoco]

SO lets get this straight.
TG (some years ago) this is S###. We need to race on ovals yada yada.
I will be US answer to F1 - I'll start my own series.

TG - We dont race on tracks or streets and not out of Norht America.
(long live the white supremist hey)

TG - CART/Champ car will never work - yadda yadda yadda.

I'm now known as T "USA Berinie" George- to race under me you will do as I say.

Previuos attempts at mergers, by others would could see the bitumen tried to broker a deal, only USA Bernie said No

Now, he runs over with cheque book in hand, here have a Million for each team etc, I will keep the races I said I would never do.


SO then, why is Kevin and Gerry copping flack from posts in this forum?

When USA bernis backflips, he is revered for ending the split he started.

It is just me or do the USA media and others , avoid telling it like it is, because USA Bernie, like F1 Bernie will not speak to the again?

In some instances, that would be good.

God Damn God Bless America

You have to laugh, it's a comedians gift for material

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by fomoco

SO lets get this straight.
TG (some years ago) this is S###. We need to race on ovals yada yada.
I will be US answer to F1 - I'll start my own series.

TG - We dont race on tracks or streets and not out of Norht America.
(long live the white supremist hey)

TG - CART/Champ car will never work - yadda yadda yadda.

I'm now known as T "USA Berinie" George- to race under me you will do as I say.

Previuos attempts at mergers, by others would could see the bitumen tried to broker a deal, only USA Bernie said No

Now, he runs over with cheque book in hand, here have a Million for each team etc, I will keep the races I said I would never do.


SO then, why is Kevin and Gerry copping flack from posts in this forum?

When USA bernis backflips, he is revered for ending the split he started.

It is just me or do the USA media and others , avoid telling it like it is, because USA Bernie, like F1 Bernie will not speak to the again?

In some instances, that would be good.

God Damn God Bless America

You have to laugh, it's a comedians gift for material

Word.

Somehow the man that created the split will get the credit for ending it. I'm sure his canonization as a saint is not far away. Only the smart realize he destroyed the village to "save" it. Few fans or businesses/sponsors in the USA give a rats ass for open wheel racing anymore. There are not many people left around to play to. And when this sellout is complete there will be even fewer around to watch as champcar fans find other pursuits in life.

Unfortunately, the remnants of champcar he'll pick off only end up as temporary filler for the endless hemorrhaging of teams and drivers from the irl. We'll be back in the same place in 2-3 years.

What I find sad is many people are so desperate for a merger, they'll take whatever slop is offered up before them. Continuing on the same path and expecting a different result is stupid. Champcar teams will just be the latest casualties in a long line of bankrupt and out of business irl teams.

The irony is that if tony gets what he wants which is 100% control, he also has 100% of the responsibility. Whether it fails or succeeds is in his hands. There will be no more evil champcar/CART people for indycool and tony to blame anymore. It's all yours bud.

[mandretti39]

Found this at Speedtv.com...

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...-developments/

Most of what's mentioned in the article has been said here, including the scheduling conflicts, expecially between Long Beach and Motegi. In order to fix that conflict, the IRL wants to move the race weekend, but Honda, who owns the track won't move it. Champ Car can't move the Long Beach race due to the contract it signed with the Long Beach Convention Center. One thing is for sure, it seems both Champ Car and the IRL want this to happen. So if it does happen, we at least have two confirmed tracks in Long Beach and Motegi.

[2112]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Word.


What I find sad is many people are so desperate for a merger, they'll take whatever slop is offered up before them. Continuing on the same path and expecting a different result is stupid. Champcar teams will just be the latest casualties in a long line of bankrupt and out of business irl teams.

Not this fan.

I`m looking to see what the future plans are. Like the formula in 2010, the schedule that should include the better CC venues like Road America.
2008 might be pasted together with glue...and I might not bother to watch that, but long term.. I`m hoping to actually follow the series....that is if it resembles CART.
That`s what it was all about wasn`t it?

[madman16]

I know this has all been said but the sad fact is that Tony George split a once powerful open wheel series (greater than F1 in terms of racing/entertainment value) to create one exactly the same as before.

There will be a mix of Oval / Road and Street courses contested mainly in North America with a splash of Canada / Japan and Aus.

The hardest job of all will be can they get the fans and corporate support back.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Word.

Somehow the man that created the split will get the credit for ending it.

To say that he caused anything to do with the split all by himself is foolish on a good day, but he is full responsible for what he has turned his IRL into and that is asininely pathetic spec. series.
Bob

[madman16]

With the proposed merger, what happens with the Atlantics and Infinity Pro series?

Do they merge aswell or remain seperate? I don't know too much about the IPS to know if they are even close in comparison

[D.R.T.]

I would hope that in a merged series, we would have Indycar as the main show and then have 2 support series with Atlantic and IPS.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by madman16

With the proposed merger, what happens with the Atlantics and Infinity Pro series?

Do they merge aswell or remain seperate? I don't know too much about the IPS to know if they are even close in comparison

Can't see why they could remain as they are. After all we did once have Atlantics and Indy Lights and all was good.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

To say that he caused anything to do with the split all by himself is foolish on a good day, but he is full responsible for what he has turned his IRL into and that is asininely pathetic spec. series.
Bob

Well Bob he was the one and only founder of the irl. Don't blame others for his actions. No one held him down and made him do it.

[Alex K]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Can't see why they could remain as they are. After all we did once have Atlantics and Indy Lights and all was good.

Indy Lights died, TA was dieing until KK came in. I doubt George will allow CCAC compete against IPS.