[Rules] Future Rule Changes

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bella

i've always thought a resource restriction would be easier to police than a budget restriction. teams have to register resources with a central body and can only make use of those for certain amounts of time.

perhaps introducing a control piece of software and control computer networks that can be inspected at any time might be worth looking at.

thinking along those lines would create a rather elegant solution imo.

cap the amount of time a factory can be open, wind tunnel run, number of employees, max hours they can work etc (resource restriction) plus a system where the team's own numbers are used to calculate the value of parts they bring to the track (an expansion of a teams inventory measurement systems readable by the FIA like the ECU).

it doesnt have to be perfect but with each passing year the system would become more refined.

also dont think exclusion should be the penalty for violating the cap but rather a system of increasingly harsh fines for every dollar spent over the cap level (see NBA for their luxury tax rules).

i guess the point is that there are alternatives to physically counting every dollar.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I respectfully and completely disagree with this. There were some excellent races, including ones Vettel dominated. 1st position might be the most important, but there is racing up and down the field.

Plus, he and Red Bull did a better job than the others. Full stop.

I was referring to the championship as being a snoozer, not the individual races.

[Rgms320]

My hat's off to the powers that be for having the bravery to implement a budget cap. I didn't believe they'd ever have the nerve to actually address the inequalities.

They've set themselves the Herculean task of administering and enforcing an almost impossible program. No matter how well structured the regulations are, or how well that the FIA monitors and measures compliance, you can bet your bottom dollar that cheating is going to be rampant. Policing the teams is going to be more than a full time job.

No matter the cheating and the teams attempts to exploit loopholes, the budget inequalities will be reduced, maybe only slowly, as time goes on. But reduced they will be.

I'm not expecting perfection. But having the cap in place the beginning of a huge step in the right direction.

Well done!

[Pingguest]

I still do not believe a budget cap is enforceable. And it was always presented as an alternative for tight technical regulations, but now it seems it will be just an additional restriction.

[Peat]

Indeed. It's just words.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by bauble

Double points? It would have meant that this year Vettel had an even bigger lead over Alonso at the end of the day. Rather defeats the object.

Daft I call it!

Interesting comments from Marko that the initial proposal was for double points at the last 4 races. This was reduced to the last race only after objections.

Red Bull still voted against but were over tulrs and it was pushed through.

Unsurprisingly BE is in favour as are Mercedes and Ferrari.

[csirl]

This budget cap stuff shows that F1 is ignorant of transfer pricing. How are they going to react when a team submits the following?:

Cost of engines: €1. [from Engine Co. Ltd.]
Cost of gearboxes: €1 [from Gearbox Co. Ltd]
Cost of aero package: €1 [from Aero Co. Ltd]
Cost of chassis materials: €1 [from Materials Co. Ltd].

They can't say ".....these suppliers are really part of your team...." if the Company Registration Office and Tax Authorities say they are independent legal entities.

My guess is that this is just a PR stunt so F1 can say it's tackled costs.

[bella]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i guess the point is that there are alternatives to physically counting every dollar.

exactly. people always think budget caps can only be about the accountants. in f1 it's all about the toys you can use to design it to go better, so monitor the use of those instead.

i do think they need to look at the computer side of it too. that could be a lot more difficult to do, but it's a lot easier than trying to financially limit and control an industry that goes hand in hand with financial shenanigans.

[Mathias]

On the double-points at the last race thing, I have two things to say:

1. I just can't understand why any race should have a greater impact on the outcome of the championship than any other, with a strong reason for this being that, as others have said, it puts more of an emphasis on elements that are more related to luck (e.g. accidents/failures) in that one race, which is not what racing should be all about.

2. Potentially more powerfully, if this is all about keeping interest in the championship going until the end of the season, what will the point be when the championship leader is already more than 75 points ahead of any rival before the penultimate race? (Like Vettel was this year.)

Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.

Such changes - like Bernie's equally daft medals system - always focus the attention on the shallowness of racing only being about winning, which is something a lot of people, including drivers, say "blah blah blah if you've not won, you've lost blah blah blah" which ignores all the excitement in watching new drivers and new teams working their way up through the ranks. If you want to make racing interesting and exciting for the whole season, award more points further down the grid.

[BSchneiderFan]

In fairness, Le Mans and the Spa 24 Hours have been double points-paying rounds of championships in recent years.

[Adam43]

I wouldn't have that, but there is a logical reason- the races are longer and more effort is required to win those compared to a normal round.

[Teretonga]

If you want double points at the last round why not make it a double header (TWO Abu Dhabi GP's?) so you can justify the double points.....

Its just a reaction to Red Bull dominance and something to provide hope for the other pretenders to the crown but it is stupid to the point of childishness. Ridiculous.
But that's what F1 is about..... little boys playing in the sandpit.... "My dad's red car is faster than yours... No Luca, my dad's car is faster...."

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

If you want double points at the last round why not make it a double header (TWO Abu Dhabi GP's?) so you can justify the double points.....

Its just a reaction to Red Bull dominance and something to provide hope for the other pretenders to the crown but it is stupid to the point of childishness. Ridiculous.
But that's what F1 is about..... little boys playing in the sandpit.... "My dad's red car is faster than yours... No Luca, my dad's car is faster...."

All we need is the whole WDC determined by some dumb drive through, or other incomprehensible stewarding decision in the last round!

Perhaps RBR can get far enough clear that they can sit out for the last round anyway!

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by wnut

Perhaps RBR can get far enough clear that they can sit out for the last round anyway!

That happened this year.

-------

I know I've stated my opinion on the matter already but there is one thing that bugs me A LOT about this double-points race. If a driver leads the championship by 26 points, he has to finish 3rd to guarantee the championship if his opponent wins...truly absurd!

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

If you want double points at the last round why not make it a double header (TWO Abu Dhabi GP's?) so you can justify the double points.....

Correct. These FIA guys just don't think.

[cmk]

Rubbish. If more points are to be awarded, more effort should be put in, roughly commensurate with the increase. As has been mentioned above, the rewards associated with victory at Le Mans or Spa in the 24 hours may be higher than the other rounds in their championships, but the key is that they are also demonstrably more challenging.

There is nothing more challenging about the final race of the season, particularly at Abu Dhabi which is bland at the best of times from a racing perspective (not knocking the quality of facilities).

The world championship finale is fine the way it is. Sure, it was a done deal in 2013 and 2011, but 2010 and 2012 were very exciting, not to mention 2007, 2008... If it ain't really broke...

[Nicholosophy]

The problem with the sport is that the teams also form part of the group that make up the rules.

There should be a governing body, who's job is to make the rules and enforce them. There should be a commercial body, who's job is to promote the sport. There should be teams who enter the competition, or don't.

Once upon a time the teams had no say in anything and were being ripped off by FISA as it was then. Now it has swung too far the other way and the teams and Bernie in particular have too much power. The deal that Max Mosley did with Bernie to do a 100 year deal on the commercial rights was and still is a sham.

Every team should get the same amount of money to appear, then their prize money. No wonder the new teams have no chance in hell to improve when Ferrari, Red Bull and others are getting massive funding from Bernie/CVC but they're having to run pay drivers to pay the bills.

If they are going to do things like double points rounds they may as well make it a spec series and turn it into open wheeler V8Supercars. Why not a reverse grid race to spice things up? Perhaps just the top ten reversed at a random race, so the teams don't know and still try their hardest to qualify?

Any one or more of these gimmicks fit right in in my view with the way F1 is headed.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by wnut

All we need is the whole WDC determined by some dumb drive through, or other incomprehensible stewarding decision in the last round!

Perhaps RBR can get far enough clear that they can sit out for the last round anyway!

The ultimate would be Vettel overturning a 49 point deficit in the final round and winning the championship. I'm no Vettel fan, but that would be absolutely, deliciously hilarious (once I stop crying).

[321Go]

This just popped up on Formula1.com.

http://www.formula1.com/news/feature.../12/15343.html

[JacobP]

I am surprised that some teams may have voted for this stupid hideous rule.

[Peat]

^They believe it will generate more money. It's all about the bottom line.

Screw the integrity of the championship, gimme mo' money!

[bjohnsonsmith]

A 'Pole Trophy' is going to be added to the mix.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111837

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peat

^They believe it will generate more money. It's all about the bottom line.

Screw the integrity of the championship, gimme mo' money!

Of course it's about money. Abu Dhabi got the last race of the season and they don't want their race to be an afterthought, if the WDC is decided before their GP. Bernie want's to keep the Abu Dhabi organisers on side and of course their sanction fee, so double the points for the last race; Abu Dhabi and Bernie are happy.

[bauble]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Of course it's about money. Abu Dhabi got the last race of the season and they don't want their race to be an afterthought, if the WDC is decided before their GP. Bernie want's to keep the Abu Dhabi organisers on side and of course their sanction fee, so double the points for the last race; Abu Dhabi and Bernie are happy.

Right! Pay attention. I have the perfect solution, this I confidently predict will be accepted by all of the teams with immediate effect.

Points will be awarded for grid positions, the last car to qualify gets one point, and then it goes up ONE POINT at a time until the driver on pole gets (say) 22 points.

Similarly points are awarded in the same fashion for all finishers, last unlapped car gets one point and then so on up to the winner. Any driver lapped once loses a (or gets a minus) point, lapped twice means two lost points and so on. Retirement for any reason minus 5 points. Blue flags are advisory only, because being lapped means dropped points so it is up to the faster car to find his own way past.

This will encourage all drivers to fight for grid position and fight not to be lapped in the race, and cars will no longer be retired for tactical reasons.

The winner will no longer take such a big advantage over the second place man, and every point will count, unlike where the current system allows someone with a big points lead to settle for a lesser place.

Closer racing, less chance of anyone running away with the title early on, and everyone is happy.

Nurse! The pills.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by bauble

Right! Pay attention. I have the perfect solution, this I confidently predict will be accepted by all of the teams with immediate effect.

Points will be awarded for grid positions, the last car to qualify gets one point, and then it goes up ONE POINT at a time until the driver on pole gets (say) 22 points.

Similarly points are awarded in the same fashion for all finishers, last unlapped car gets one point and then so on up to the winner. Any driver lapped once loses a (or gets a minus) point, lapped twice means two lost points and so on. Retirement for any reason minus 5 points. Blue flags are advisory only, because being lapped means dropped points so it is up to the faster car to find his own way past.

This will encourage all drivers to fight for grid position and fight not to be lapped in the race, and cars will no longer be retired for tactical reasons.

The winner will no longer take such a big advantage over the second place man, and every point will count, unlike where the current system allows someone with a big points lead to settle for a lesser place.

Closer racing, less chance of anyone running away with the title early on, and everyone is happy.

Nurse! The pills.

Which pills?