Vettel versus Hamilton 2017

[Greem]

"Has the edge" is not exactly equal to "is by far a better driver" though.

Please stop flogging the horse, you'll start spreading infection.

[Adam43]

The subtlety of this post may be lost on some despite it being in red. To be clear there is an underlying message which is stop being a prat.

As pointed out the horse is dead. Move on.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

I guess they've just developed that thing around him and poor Bottas can drive as hard as he can but won't do the time at the end of the lap.

In Andrew Benson's column a few weeks ago, he discusses why Hamilton seems to be getting more consistency from the car than Bottas.
Wolff has described the car regularly as being a 'diva',
'We have a capricious car that has a very narrow operating window with the tyres where the tyres generate optimum grip, and dipping in and out of the window is the fundamental story of 2017 for us. Driving style plays a role. Lewis was able to better adapt to the problem than Valtteri but changing driving style is not something that comes easy to anybody.'

The capriciousness seems to be the factor here, and perhaps it is Hamilton's experience with the car's history and development that allows him to identify this earlier and compensate.

An interesting thought is how do you determine the better car? It is acknowledged that the Ferrari seems to be quick everywhere, but also that the Mercedes is regularly the quickest out there.
So both Vettel and Hamilton have had the best car this season - depending on how you determine the quality.
Consistently good, or occasionally brilliant?

[S griffin]

Interesting. Lewis being there longer no doubt makes it easier for him to find the limitations

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Interesting. Lewis being there longer no doubt makes it easier for him to find the limitations

Could also be that the narrow operating window matches up better with Hamilton's style than Bottas'. I would imagine the car was designed more with Hamilton in mind than any other driver, so wherever it's narrow operating window is, it is meant to align with Hamilton, so any different driver style will be further off in that window.

[MTW]

It's a disappointment in the sense that although the cars were close this season nevertheless there is seldom an on-track battle for the two drivers contending for the title. It's a mystery to me how the cars can be so close in performance and yet there is never much action.

Perhaps it's because it's all so clinical, all the strategies are similar. I remember when in the past exciting and interesting pit stop strategies meant that often one driver would be three stopping and the other driver two stopping, and one would have to charge, while the other lasted his tyres, and it nearly always equalled to a confrontation on the track. That's the good old days I guess, in the mid ninetees. What can I say I am nostalgic, I am an old man now. Lol

[S griffin]

Maybe it has something to do with the increase in downforce, which has meant strategy has become more important again. It was good to see them battling for the lead in Spain though

[RWill2073]

I don't think the tires have helped things, either. They're too durable this year. Pretty much every race has been a one stopper easily. The dynamic of one or two stops (or better yet, two or three), preserve tires or run qualifying laps and use them up, has gone away.

[Adam43]

The tyres last year were hated as drivers could push because they needed to preserve them. Fan feedback was quite vocal on that. Pirelli again did what they were asked and this year we now have too hard and dull.

F1 can't win. Perhaps stop listening to fans, both situations were as a result of fan pressure.

Oh, and let's have a tyre war and we can just have what naturally happens.

[S griffin]

I’ve often said this is the drawback of having a control tyre. They’ve no competition so they don’t need to try as hard to make it the best

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by Adam43

The tyres last year were hated as drivers could push because they needed to preserve them. Fan feedback was quite vocal on that. Pirelli again did what they were asked and this year we now have too hard and dull.

F1 can't win.

If you think the whingers are carrying on about the tyres this year, just wait until 2018. There will be quite a few compounds to choose from. Lots of compounds to choose from will lead to lots of whinging from the usual suspects.

[RWill2073]

N/m.

[F1Guy]

Sergio Marchionne has said with having the best car on the grid, it was technical issues and bad drivers that cost Ferrari the championships.


Sergio Marchionne: "Ultimately it's a reflection on the way in which we manage the businesses. It was a combination, especially in the second half of the season, between technical issues and driver error – or driver misjudgement."

"So, we have done well given our starting point, we were unable to finish the task. It's a 2018 objective now. We regret not having done better, but the car is there – it's in my view the best car on the track today."

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/16285


Funny that, I also said the same thing a few weeks back.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

I don't think the tires have helped things, either. They're too durable this year. Pretty much every race has been a one stopper easily. The dynamic of one or two stops (or better yet, two or three), preserve tires or run qualifying laps and use them up, has gone away.

I really thought that the tyres have made the racing better this year, the cauliflowers meant that nobody could ever push and ruined even the pretense of racing.

[S griffin]

Yes, it's been nice to see drivers be able to push more, without fear of destroying the tyres. It's been better in that respect

[chillibowl]

agreed, Pirelli have done well this year.

of course as the season went on, teams figured it out and started extracting more life from the tires but i also think Pirelli has done well to keep pace with the team development. also think they made a good choice in dropping the harder compound after Spain(i think?).

that said, i havent seen much written about Pirelli and/or what influence the tire choices were making in regards to Vettel/Ferrari's early season race pace and/or Hamilton/Merc's lack of it?

rather how much did the tires play a part?

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Sergio Marchionne has said with having the best car on the grid, it was technical issues and bad drivers that cost Ferrari the championships.


Sergio Marchionne: "Ultimately it's a reflection on the way in which we manage the businesses. It was a combination, especially in the second half of the season, between technical issues and driver error – or driver misjudgement."

"So, we have done well given our starting point, we were unable to finish the task. It's a 2018 objective now. We regret not having done better, but the car is there – it's in my view the best car on the track today."

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/16285


Funny that, I also said the same thing a few weeks back.

Cool. Well done. Guess we've found our new Ferrari boss!

[S griffin]

Mechanical problems happen, but it would be easier if Vettel hadn’t thrown away a couple of wins

[RWill2073]

Team boss says his team and/or car is best. News at 11. McLaren has best chassis, red bull best aero, etc etc.... What else should we expect the team boss to say? "The driver is great, we suck as a team and our car and Ferrari engine sucks"?

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

What else should we expect the team boss to say? "The driver is great, we suck as a team and our car and Ferrari engine sucks"?

Pretty much exactly what Sergio Marchionne was saying mid last year.