Special Saloons - the post 1975 (ish) cars

[Clive Brown]

Loads of good stuff here . What you say about Tony Dickinson's Skoda makes perfect sense , as the date of the Pilbeam R17 really makes it too early for it to have been the second car . The error is clearly the listing in Pilbeam's records .

I too had the Triple C article ; it quoted some ridiculous all-up weight for the car , which it must have exceeded by about three hundredweight ! OK , the FVC and FT200 would be a bit heavier than a 1300 BDA and Mk.8/9 , but as for the rest ....

Rob's Brands 850 record was/is indeed 53.0 . The 1000cc record we originally set was a 51.6 ; the previous record was John Homewood's . I think Rob did later lower it to 51.2 . It was eventually broken some years later by David Enderby's Singer Chamois Coupe , for which I built the engines . David managed a 51.1 on a cold day late in the season using a cylinder head which had at one point been broken clean in two across the middle , and which I had had welded back together again .

Incidentally , the best time Rob ever managed around Brands with the Bevan Imp in 1976 was a 50.8 , done in free practice either on a Wednesday morning or Saturday session . These sessions were good fun ; as you say , only the the very fastest FF1600s could give the Bevan Imp a run for its money , and I well remember Rob passing one around the outside of Paddock !

You're quite right about Ernie Woods , too . He raced his Escort at both Brands and Lydden before he got the first tin Imp , which was the ex-Jon Dewing MAK Engineering car . He bought the car less engine , which is how I got to know him ; I sold him a complete 1 litre built from bits salvaged from an ex-Homewood Bevan motor .

[Clive Brown]

So was neither Dickinson car based on a Lola S2000 chassis then ? Was the Pilbeam R17 not commissioned too early to have been the second car ? Perhaps R17 was never built ? Maybe I've put two and two together to make five , and it wasn't even for Tony Dickinson!

If the first car was the ex-Alec Poole / Chris Meek car , what was that based on ? The FVC bit certainly makes sense , because the first Hart 420R didn't make its debut until part way through the 1976 season , and it took the demise of F2 ( by then dominated by the Honda V6 in the works Ralts ) and the various 2 litre Gp. 6 sports car series for the 420R to permeate down into National-level club racing .

Did the second car , whether it used either a T290 or T490 series tub ( or even possibly both at various stages of its career ? ) , use T290 series suspension spares acquired with the complete T290 ?

Help - I'm confused!

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

So was neither Dickinson car based on a Lola S2000 chassis then ? Was the Pilbeam R17 not commissioned too early to have been the second car ? Perhaps R17 was never built ? Maybe I've put two and two together to make five , and it wasn't even for Tony Dickinson!

If the first car was the ex-Alec Poole / Chris Meek car , what was that based on ? The FVC bit certainly makes sense , because the first Hart 420R didn't make its debut until part way through the 1976 season , and it took the demise of F2 ( by then dominated by the Honda V6 in the works Ralts ) and the various 2 litre Gp. 6 sports car series for the 420R to permeate down into National-level club racing .

Did the second car , whether it used either a T290 or T490 series tub ( or even possibly both at various stages of its career ? ) , use T290 series suspension spares acquired with the complete T290 ?

Help - I'm confused!

Pilbeam did TWO lots of work for Tony Dickinson.

1) R17 which was the work on a Lola Sports 2000 to convert it into a Skoda. and
2) R16 which was some work (not sure exactlly what) on the Imp-BDA.

[Clive Brown]

Both R16 ( the Imp BDA ) and R17 are listed on the Pilbeam website as 1975 projects .

[driftwood]

the Dickenson Lola skoda was not 1975 that was 78 purchase for 79 or 80 racing
Chris meek/alec poole cars was steel shell car circa 73 build for 74 racing
when TD bought the complete T290 as race dby Cloud engineering at LM he got a heap of parts
1 tub uprights gbox wheels blah blah blah so he had pilbeam modify the tub to narrow it for skoda body used all his spares to make a roller
the tub sits in a yard with roll hoop ( well 2 yrs ago it was!)

Honda did not enter F2 until 1980 with the V6 motor
BMW M12 was the motor to have in F2 until Honda turned up Harts normally fitted to Chevron cars

Ernie Woods escort was that Eddie ?? ( i want to say Glass) car who raced at Lydden odd brands race car was white he wore glasses older chap

re lola 911
I hope to have it ready for June 2009 when there will be no rain COWARD !!!!

Re Rob doing a 50.8 on a test day- some may want to dispute it but only a brave man or a fool would want to argue with Doris doing the time keeping!

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

the Dickenson Lola skoda was not 1975 that was 78 purchase for 79 or 80 racing

Tony Dickinson was racing a 2 Litre Skoda-Hart at Oulton Park in 1978. It was entered by "Dealer Team Skoda".


Above: 1979 Oulton and Tony Dickinson is leading Walter Robertson (VW DFV) and Derek Walker (Skoda-Ford)

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Ernie Woods escort was that Eddie ?? ( i want to say Glass) car who raced at Lydden odd brands race car was white he wore glasses older chap

Eddie Punt , I think you mean . IIRC that car had a two litre BDA of some sort .

[driftwood]

yes Clive thats the man only raced Lydden and the odd Brands race motor may have been 1850 bde type thing poss FVC?

re the skoda running in 78 maybe it was 77 purchae i need to look up the LM entry for cloud engineering

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by driftwood

yes Clive thats the man only raced Lydden and the odd Brands race motor may have been 1850 bde type thing poss FVC?

re the skoda running in 78 maybe it was 77 purchae i need to look up the LM entry for cloud engineering

Tony was running a Ford Escort BDA 1998cc in 1976.

Eddie Punt's Escort was a BDA 1840cc IIRC.

[Clive Brown]

So if Tony Dickinson was racing an Escort with a 2 litre BDA in 1976 , the engine from that car must presumably have been disposed of at the same time as the Escort , since we are told that his first Skoda (the ex-Alec Poole/Chris Meek car ) was powered by an FVC .

As far as the Eddie Punt Escort is concerned , I was sure that it was powered by a BD-series engine of some sort , as for some bizarre reason , I can distinctly remember the metering unit being on top of the cam cover , driven by a toothed belt off the front of the exhaust cam ( see pictures of Derek Walker's Escort for clarification ) , whereas the FVC had it installed below the throttle slides , driven off the back of the inlet cam . I still think it might have been a full two litre , as to be frank , a number of people at the time did rather think that such a good motor was a little wasted on someone of Eddie's , shall we say somewhat mdest , talents !

Curiously , Cosworth BDEs ( built on an iron block ) were always listed at 1850 cc , whereas the engine in the stock Mk. II Escort RS1800 , which was alloy blocked , was always listed as 1840 cc . That particular block , though , was not strong enough for racing use .

Does anyone still have Lydden Hill programmes for the period concerned - that should list the nominal engine capacity of the Punt Escort .

[big andy]

the ex mick hill beetle which dave taylor is restoring is nearly complete
dave hoping to race it in the n/w sports/saloons he's also trying to get as many special saloon together for a few parade demonstration run next year
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[COLIN STUBBS]

So good to see it again!!!!!!

[peter thurston]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

I think Nick's 2nd Escort mk1 had the BDG. He used this from 75-76, then building the GA 3.4 mk2 Escort for 77-78. The latter went to John Kirk in Jockland. Can't recall what happened to his mk1s.

I do recall Walter Rob in a mk2 2-litre BMW Escort in around 1978. The engine may have been ex-Dickson, Kim bought it from him in early 79 for his F2 March that year. I wasn't aware he also got an Escort in the deal.

Apparently kim took it in a deal about 77 and had started to break it up before the boys from bolton got to it.They swapped him an all alloy BDA for the shell !! Then the cheapest form of power was the rover v8 which they fitted ,and then sprayed it aubergine with a copper coloured top half.Ring any bells!! Pete

[M.Lowe]

Thanks to Bert MK2 for giving me the link to this thread as I love the construction and looks of these cars .

It would be good to see some of those that are still about and new ones race at Teesside Autodrome

Anyway a few for tonight
Croft 1970's

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by Martin Dilks

The ex_ Ian Richardson Corvair was purchased by me, Martin Dilks (who still runs D B Motors selling parts for American cars and RV s etc.I am now based near Husbands Bosworth) from a guy call Mick who was somewhere down near Cirencester. When I got the car it was a dark-ish metallic blue, much the same as when Tony Stawson raced it. There was no engine, just the gearbox.

That would be Mick Leary, an old school friend of my late father who sold it to him.

Originally Posted by Martin Dilks

Also in the same season I bought the Firenza, Baby Bertha in a deal for a 1979 Mustang. This was painted mostly black at the time as raced by Paul Heywood-

Paul Haywood-Halfpenny. Martin - did you paint Baby Bertha white or was that Phil Barak?

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by M.Lowe

Croft again

Is that Mike Newman's car?

[big andy]

if it is mike newmans hes still got it

[haman132]

some pic's from magazine articles i have

1975


1975 signed in 1999 by Gerry at Zandvoort


1976








1989

[COLIN STUBBS]

Heres Mike Newman just being pipped by the king of Cadwell saloons Tony Sugden......

[COLIN STUBBS]

Hers a mixed bag of some interesting cars. Including Baby Bertha in the Paul Heywood Halfpenny livery, the Skoda of Tony Dickinson, but can anyone identify the mk1 Escort and the Capri.



And this must have been a nightmare for Mr Potter in the wet at Cadwell....

[driftwood]

cannot see clearly
i guess teh year is circa 78/79 at silverstone
rear of mk1 escort is that the Jag xj12
whi is in the mk2 escort is no 47 in front of dickenson skoda

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by big andy

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8I4DLQBrNEI
been to see the beetle to day it looks stunning should be ready for test day at bruntingthorpe march were hoping to get 20 special/super/gt saloons for a magaZine feature we have 14 confirmed cars already the hope is to get enough interest for a small number of races fingers crossed

Jeff Wilson with the VW Beetle at Aintree in 1981

[Dan Rear]

Originally Posted by driftwood

cannot see clearly
i guess teh year is circa 78/79 at silverstone
rear of mk1 escort is that the Jag xj12
whi is in the mk2 escort is no 47 in front of dickenson skoda

Is the no.47 Walter Robertson? I can't think of many other Escort mk2s around at this time.

[driftwood]

Just been reading autosports jan -May 1975 found snippets as follows in relevent order

1 Davina G gets 1st drive in Mk1 escort shell and southern organs sponsorship and im sure ots prepped by Nick whitings ACE team
crashes 1st time out biffs teh car heavily
next race she has Escort mk2 version
2 Nick whiting is out in new spaceframe Mk1 escort FVC
3 Doug Niven has HUGE shunt in boss escort car is write off
has advert selling of the bits
later he buys Colin Hawkers Capri less DFV fits Boss motor and races that

4 Colin Hawker debuts DFVW
5 Gerry Marshal debuts Baby Bertha after the Ventora is writen off

6 Peter Baldwin has BDA mini running

[Kale]

Hello

I´m own a bare Daren MK 2 Monocoque. with the Letters :
Tricentrol on the black aluminium sidepods.
I heard from a Daren MK2 who 1971 - 72 rebuild as a Skoda Super Saloon Car
Any Pictures or History ??

regards Karl