Banning tyre warmers... is it mad ?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by GBoehm

My point K-B is I dont really understand why they were used in the first place. My discontent with F1 is that Technoligy plays to big of a role. So my point is with tyre warmers and other driver aids, it might be more fun to watch robots drive.

But that's one of the intrinsic elements of F1 - technological progression and evolution. wing mirrors, disc brakes, slicks, wings, ground-effect, semi-auto gearboxes, anti-lock brakes, diffusers, adaptive steering, traction control, pneumatic valves all originated in F1 [OK, someone's gonna correct me on one of these and say it was invented by Volvo ].

The FIA have [correctly] policed the situation in terms of safety, competition and costs. However we do need to allow a platform in motorsport for technical progression. If you look around, its prohibited from almost all other racing series [GP2, F-Renault, Champcars, A1GP etc...]

Provided the FIA stick to the ethos that the driver remains the most significant factor in an F1 package [i.e. prohibiting devices that assume control of the car i.e. adaptive steering, traction control etc...], then all will be well. The problem is that IMO, they're not doing that effectively enough right now.

[safc_fan89]

Banning tyre warmers wouldn't change anything, the teams would just find some other way to heat the tyres. If you want to see driver skill as the major factor in how a car performs, banning all electronic aids and traction control wouild be a good start. Makes GP2 good.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by safc_fan89

Banning tyre warmers wouldn't change anything, the teams would just find some other way to heat the tyres. If you want to see driver skill as the major factor in how a car performs, banning all electronic aids and traction control wouild be a good start. Makes GP2 good.

You're absolutely right. People are confusing tyre warmers with driver aids. Tyre warmers, present or absent, have little effect on the show. Electronic aids and aerodynamic devices that restrict overtaking do.

[safc_fan89]

These add-on aero parts that have appeared since last season have really spoiled the racing. Ban them and overtaking should be at least semi-possible rather than close to impossible.

Having cold tyres at the start of a race would be dangerous, would it not? Look at how everyone was running wide at Japan when there was no grip. If 130R didn't have a tarmac run-off area, Christian Klien would have had a big accident.

Getting rid of tyre warmers could make the opening laps dangerous, and if teams want to pay for them, let them.

[SpawnyWhippet]

Then the drivers need to go slower till they warm up their tyres. They are the ones in control of the thing, thats part of the skill. Drivers who are better at judging cold tyre grip will be at an advantage.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by safc_fan89

These add-on aero parts that have appeared since last season have really spoiled the racing. Ban them and overtaking should be at least semi-possible rather than close to impossible.

Having cold tyres at the start of a race would be dangerous, would it not? Look at how everyone was running wide at Japan when there was no grip. If 130R didn't have a tarmac run-off area, Christian Klien would have had a big accident.

Getting rid of tyre warmers could make the opening laps dangerous, and if teams want to pay for them, let them.

If a driver hasn't the maximum grip, he will have to slow down. It should be up to him to determine his speed.

[JohnSSC]

I wonder if when synchromesh gearboxes were first used if they were decried for taking away "driver skill?"

In some ways these are indeed "easier" cars to drive - at least in the sense that they don't have a tendency to kill you (literally) when you make a mistake. "Driver aids" or not, today's F1 pilot has to be able to react to changing conditions while going at average speeds that are essentially ridiculous compared to what the previous generations of cars have been capable of. However, the complexity, adjustability and just the overall raw speed requires a huge amount of driver skill. Are the skillsets needed somewhat different than 40 years ago? Yes. But that does not make these drivers "lacking" by comparison.

Now if we could just talk the FIA into requiring "crash" boxes...

[davyboy]

20 years ago, there's was nothing to stop you from 'buzzing' an engine and ending your race there and then. A fairly simple piece of engine management code now makes this impossible. Is that a driver aid ? Should we say remove that piece of code because its up to the driver and his skill to ensure an engine's not over-revved ? Its like telling people to leave their cellphones at home because in years gone by you had to go home or to public call box to make a telephone call if you were out.

[Marbot]

The problem with driver aids is that they give the general viewing public the illusion that F1 cars are easy to drive.

ABS,just stand on the pedal at a predetermined braking point and let the system do it all for you.

TC,just floor the throttle mid corner and away you go,no wheelspin or power oversteer,just a nice smooth exit and a splutter from your motor.

Semi-auto gearboxes,what could be easier,well fully-auto of course.

Of course it's not that easy is it,but then i'm under no illusion.

[EERO]

Originally Posted by davyboy

20 years ago, there's was nothing to stop you from 'buzzing' an engine and ending your race there and then. A fairly simple piece of engine management code now makes this impossible. Is that a driver aid ? Should we say remove that piece of code because its up to the driver and his skill to ensure an engine's not over-revved ? Its like telling people to leave their cellphones at home because in years gone by you had to go home or to public call box to make a telephone call if you were out.

I think the sense of the arguement is that if you give a driver more things to consider that tax his skill, the likelyhood of a misstep is possible. Not a catastrophic misstep, but someting like a muffed downshift that allows a following driver who shifted cleanly to gain momentum and pull off a clean pass.

[JohnSSC]

On the converse of that, EERO, think of all the things now that a driver must consider that he/she did not have to 20 or more years ago:

Tire choice
Tire pressures
Engine mapping
Aero settings
Etc

Further, with all of the electronic recording devices, a driver really can't fool the engineers with lurid stories of opposite lock and potentially deflating tyres (I am equal opportunity: time for the UK spelling) to explain a visit to the tire wall. "I was flat out in Eau Rouge." is now an easily verifiable statement.

My point here is that there is now much more pressure on the driver to perform: "Here. We are giving you this car that can do X,Y & Z. We can monitor the data to see if you utilize it or if you bend it, what you were really doing (as opposed to what you told us)."

[Kicking-back]

OFFICIAL: The teams have voted to keep tyre warmers

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

OFFICIAL: The teams have voted to keep tyre warmers

That's a shame.

[Kirk]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

On the converse of that, EERO, think of all the things now that a driver must consider that he/she did not have to 20 or more years ago:

Tire choice
Tire pressures
Engine mapping
Aero settings
Etc

Further, with all of the electronic recording devices, a driver really can't fool the engineers with lurid stories of opposite lock and potentially deflating tyres (I am equal opportunity: time for the UK spelling) to explain a visit to the tire wall. "I was flat out in Eau Rouge." is now an easily verifiable statement.

My point here is that there is now much more pressure on the driver to perform: "Here. We are giving you this car that can do X,Y & Z. We can monitor the data to see if you utilize it or if you bend it, what you were really doing (as opposed to what you told us)."

Some good points there John. I bet there was many an outrageous yarn told back in the "good ol' days". The drivers are under more pressure than ever to perform. All the gadgets allow the driver and engineer alike to remain on the same page and virtually every situation is monitored and measured in the modern F1.

As for the decision to keep tyre warmers, I think it's a good idea ... and perhaps this can be revisited when (or is it, if?) slicks are reintroduced.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

That's a shame.

No its not.