Commodore Gone

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Casper

Can you please expand on my incorrect opinions please and why they are incorrect in your version of the story. It is easy to assert things without evidence to to the contrary. Sheets of paper was an example of this.

Already have gasper, but as a refresher, this is the one which brought us all to this point:

Originally Posted by Casper

Both Ford and Holden failed for similar reasons, failure to read the market changes was one.

Sheets of paper? What on earth are you on about now?

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by chavez

I asked two family members and one mechanic.

Family members it agreed it was a good car and appreciated the seven seat option and the luggage capacity.

The mechanic said the front end can be a little fragile but most of this customers seems to like the. Many bought a second after owning their first one.

So I guess both of our scientifically dubious survey and research resulted in slightly different outcomes.

According to wikipedia Ford sold over 175,000.

While I cannot be certain that not all of those buyers were mugs, there must have been many people happy with them.

The only mugs in this argument are those Holden fans that criticise the current Commodore model like Star Wars fans criticise the Last Jedi - just because it is not the car (or film) you want does not make it a bad car (or film).

Those are certainly good figures, I was put off by the front enf suspension failures. ANyway Back on topic. Bring on another season of Commo..............................OH wait Camaro "shrugs"

[Trevor]

Generally front end issues are a result of poor maintenance

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Goes back to the AU Falcon. Ford Australia had the chance to engineer it for left hand drive but feared once it was left drive capable, Ford USA would seize on it and either see it as competition that needed killed off or take over the platform completely and make it in the USA making Ford Australia irrelevant. In the end, it didn't matter, Ford Australia and the Falcon ended up as an unprofitable outlier in Ford's worldwide scheme and it all got shut down anyways.

Sad deal for Australia to lose it's unique cars and manufacturing capability but in this global world it's manufacturing and cars were going to be at risk as they were owned by global brands. Perhaps if brands such as Holden were owned by Australians and sold unique Australian cars worldwide, things would have been different.

Ford Australia has said all along they never had the manufacturing capacity here to build for the American (LHD) market - they made no secret of that

However whey the Barra was never picked up overseas is strange

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Trevor

Ford Australia has said all along they never had the manufacturing capacity here to build for the American (LHD) market - they made no secret of that

However whey the Barra was never picked up overseas is strange

The greater mystery is why was Ford Australia tarting up a 60 year old inline six (with great expense converting it to finally DOHC, before that SOHC, before that crossflow and so on over the years), instead of using the corporate Ford Duratec V6!

Engine enthusiasts love their indestructible cast iron inline sixes, but the advantages of an alloy block V6 are undeniable. It is lighter, it sits much further back in the engine bay... It just makes for a much better handling motor car.

Fred Gibson was very disappointed in Nissan for sticking with an inline six for the R32 GTR. He expected a twin turbo V6 for a car released in 1989, and was surprised when the GTR was revealed with an inline engine. Gibson says the length of the RB26 created numerous handling difficulties.

So an inline six was already old fashioned in 1989, and Ford Australia were still using one in 2017!

[Trevor]

it's great isn't it - a now people from all the world are seeking them. They are being imported into the States in quite large numbers

[Forda]

Yet Holden moving from the Nissan RB30 straight 6, to the Buick V6, was widely considered a huge backwards move in 1988.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The greater mystery is why was Ford Australia tarting up a 60 year old inline six (with great expense converting it to finally DOHC, before that SOHC, before that crossflow and so on over the years), instead of using the corporate Ford Duratec V6!

Engine enthusiasts love their indestructible cast iron inline sixes, but the advantages of an alloy block V6 are undeniable. It is lighter, it sits much further back in the engine bay... It just makes for a much better handling motor car.

Fred Gibson was very disappointed in Nissan for sticking with an inline six for the R32 GTR. He expected a twin turbo V6 for a car released in 1989, and was surprised when the GTR was revealed with an inline engine. Gibson says the length of the RB26 created numerous handling difficulties.

So an inline six was already old fashioned in 1989, and Ford Australia were still using one in 2017!

And yet the current trend is to return to inline sixes instead of V6’s.

Also for what it is worth an R32 has a 60/40 front rear weight distribution. The rb26 is only part of that, you have the transfer case, the front diff etc etc all adding weight forward. It’s not like they struggled at any point.

Lastly, the advantages of a straight six are undeniable. No silly balance shafts or oddball vee angles to trying and make the thing run properly for a start. I’d much rather the RB in my r32 than a vg30dett in a Z32. Not least because the latter have a bad reputation for failing due to the tight packaging caused, in part, by too many camshafts.

[Trevor]

all I will say is 'Ryco Z9'

[Casper]

Another Ford model hits the dust with the announcement of the Mondeo being cut from the model line.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/ford-m...ticleResults10

The sedan is definitely on the nose with the buying public.

[Trevor]

I heard about that some time ago, so not surprised, although I did think it was common knowledge

Australians have moved on to SUV's and twin cabs - it really does fly in the face of 'downsizing' to save the economy, are we thumbing our collective noses at climate change - or are we thumbing our noses at the Europeans who are trying to force us to go smaller

[mountainstar]

Now Peugeot is merging with Fiat Chrysler, so one can definitely imagine that this platform was going bye bye anyways, regardless of sales. Based on the articles I read there is going to be a wholesale streamlining of platforms with all these companies now under this big umbrella.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Now Peugeot is merging with Fiat Chrysler, so one can definitely imagine that this platform was going bye bye anyways, regardless of sales. Based on the articles I read there is going to be a wholesale streamlining of platforms with all these companies now under this big umbrella.

that would be akin to the proposal that GM looked at back in the late 70's and early 80's.
The "J Car" was to be a platform for most of the common sedans in all GM's operations to be the same .
Just changes to the guards, grilles lights , etc to suit local markets .

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by fomoco

that would be akin to the proposal that GM looked at back in the late 70's and early 80's.
The "J Car" was to be a platform for most of the common sedans in all GM's operations to be the same .
Just changes to the guards, grilles lights , etc to suit local markets .

The iconic Holden Camira was the local version of the General Motors J-body.

You could even get a Cadillac version -- what a superb vehicle! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Cimarron

[Kingair]

The mighty Camira, what a heap of junk!

Working for Coles Myer in the mid 80’s one of there gifted geniuses in the fleet department purchased some of these at a bargain price for lower management to drive. Unfortunately they did not have any air conditioning fitted so that had to be retrofitted, which was great because as soon as you turned that on, you didn’t need to use the brakes to slow down.

Not to mention the usual GMH, build and quality control issues!

Perhaps we could get a special run of those ZZZ Gemini’s!

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Kingair

The mighty Camira, what a heap of junk!

Working for Coles Myer in the mid 80’s one of there gifted geniuses in the fleet department purchased some of these at a bargain price for lower management to drive. Unfortunately they did not have any air conditioning fitted so that had to be retrofitted, which was great because as soon as you turned that on, you didn’t need to use the brakes to slow down.

Not to mention the usual GMH, build and quality control issues!

Perhaps we could get a special run of those ZZZ Gemini’s!

Motoring Year 1982/3 is full of praise for the Camira, with only a hint of the disaster about to unfold.

[Average Punter]

I remember when my brother's girlfriend crashed their Camira in the late 80s.
She was fine. The car was not.
Seeing him being told the car was a write-off and the insurance company was paying was like watching someone win a million dollar lottery...

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by Kingair

The mighty Camira, what a heap of junk!

Working for Coles Myer in the mid 80’s one of there gifted geniuses in the fleet department purchased some of these at a bargain price for lower management to drive. Unfortunately they did not have any air conditioning fitted so that had to be retrofitted, which was great because as soon as you turned that on, you didn’t need to use the brakes to slow down.

Not to mention the usual GMH, build and quality control issues!

Perhaps we could get a special run of those ZZZ Gemini’s!

Much like the AU Falcon

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

Much like the AU Falcon

Not really, actually, not at all. The Camira was meant to fit in between the Gemini and the not-so-big Commodore.

It stole buyers away from both, particularly from the Commodore.

The AU's legacy was it was designed and built too damn tough - but that's another story.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

Much like the AU Falcon

the single biggest issue with the AU was the front, the car itself was fantastic, one of the best they built - In fact with the upgrade from the AU to BA they really out changed the front and rear cosmetics

sorry, but NO-ONE ever will say the same for the Camira - it was just junk

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by Trevor

the single biggest issue with the AU was the front, the car itself was fantastic, one of the best they built - In fact with the upgrade from the AU to BA they really out changed the front and rear cosmetics

sorry, but NO-ONE ever will say the same for the Camira - it was just junk

Totally agree, just poking the bear.
The Camira was a disaster.
The AU just looked hideous.

[billybanana]

My first car was a Gemini and then I moved up to an SLE Camira and then a string of Commodores. So for me the Camira was a nice stepping stone up to the big boys I couldn't afford at the time. It may well have been junk, but it was my junk and I loved it.

[Trevor]

Every bloke is entitled to love their junk

[Casper]

Originally Posted by chavez

Motoring Year 1982/3 is full of praise for the Camira, with only a hint of the disaster about to unfold.

Going from vague memory one of the models had something like 20 coolant hoses that could leak and when we did an engine change we replaced them all no matter what the customer said.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by billybanana

My first car was a Gemini and then I moved up to an SLE Camira and then a string of Commodores. So for me the Camira was a nice stepping stone up to the big boys I couldn't afford at the time. It may well have been junk, but it was my junk and I loved it.

Whatever you say about the early ones mu family owned 2 for a long time with no trouble, the 2L in a manual was a very nice thing compared to many comparable cars. The one my dad owned is still running around and the new owner never took off his personalised plates!