[WEC] Alpine Sportscar Discussion

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Do we know which part of it actually failed on a GR010?

hard to say... guess a toyota brakes failure automatically involves ERS and all related hardware as well... that's why brake issues for toyota may mean a lot of time in the garage during the race, unlike glicknehaus where brakes are only there to brake.

[greenmachinets040]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Do we know which part of it actually failed on a GR010?

I think the only official statement is, that they had to change the "front left corner", which mustn t relate to the brakes.

[Adam43]

Not sure. Just looked.

https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/h...treak/6633901/

And I’d mis-remembered (crikey it was only a couple of weeks ago!) and just assumed that the comment above was correct, it was mainly a fuel problem that delayed them.

8 had the fuel problem and after they first pitted they didn’t fit the wheel correctly and it damaged the hub and they needed to change the whole front left corner. They then also changed the fuel system.

7 had it’s electrical issues that needed a restart, but I don’t think anything else.

So, I don’t think that Toyota had to change the brakes at Monza. It was other stuff. Although they do I lock up a lot (some of that was the wheel being loose).

[canaglia]

toyota didn't change brakes at monza, but it was clear they were on limit with brakes from the very beginning of the race. That's why I think they will suffer a lot at le mans since they will need to do heavy brakes all the time for 24 hours with likely hot temps.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by greenmachinets040

I think the only official statement is, that they had to change the "front left corner", which mustn t relate to the brakes.

It wasn’t - they messed up putting a wheel back on which caused damage.

Originally Posted by canaglia

toyota didn't change brakes at monza, but it was clear they were on limit with brakes from the very beginning of the race. That's why I think they will suffer a lot at le mans since they will need to do heavy brakes all the time for 24 hours with likely hot temps.

It is clear that they have brake issues. The regen and the brakes not working together well. And that could well cause them to be delayed.

Originally Posted by Vasselon

We are worried, but that’s business as usual for a racing team. We know we have some work to do.

https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/h...treak/6633901/

It’s not clear this is a wear issue. I’ll guess not. And despite the extra weight, the Toyota does have regen which helps wear. It is reasonable to question whether Toyota would have to change the brakes in the race. At least for wear.

[canaglia]

won't be surprised if even toyota doesn't completely know where the main issue lies, recall back in 2014 when F1 got heavier cars and adopted brake by wire too, basically all teams but mercedes had braking issues and some drivers like vettel almost forgot how to actually brake.
Brake wear, overheating, ERS software issues, F/R brake balance, etc... it can be anything and/or all of these...

[chernaudi]

But shouldn't Toyota have been dealing with brake by wire and regen and such for a while, given that all of their LMP1 cars have been hybrids, and that the TS040 and -050 depended a lot more on the hybrid system for motive power (and hence regen and stuff related to braking was much more important)?


Then again, those cars also weighed much less than the GR010.


Alpine can be in the cat bird seat as far as reliablity, in that the Oreca/Rebellion chassis is proven, as is the Gibson V8 and XTrac gearbox. However, it hasn't run a full LM24 at the weight it's running at, either.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by canaglia

won't be surprised if even toyota doesn't completely know where the main issue lies, recall back in 2014 when F1 got heavier cars and adopted brake by wire too, basically all teams but mercedes had braking issues and some drivers like vettel almost forgot how to actually brake.
Brake wear, overheating, ERS software issues, F/R brake balance, etc... it can be anything and/or all of these...

You’re right, they don’t even know what size fuel tank they need

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Alpine can be in the cat bird seat as far as reliablity, in that the Oreca/Rebellion chassis is proven, as is the Gibson V8 and XTrac gearbox. However, it hasn't run a full LM24 at the weight it's running at, either.

Which is the bit relevant to this thread. Yes.

On pitstops Toyota have probably got 5-10 minutes on Alpine (back of the envelope and chatting with someone who lives somewhere that smells nice). That’s not many resets or little problems…

Should be a cracker…

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Adam43

You’re right, they don’t even know what size fuel tank they need

same size or maybe even larger than the one used by a serious contender, which hasn't came yet.
At the moment glickenhaus may even have longer stints, but they are unrelibale and just slightly faster than lmp2 (during first stint of tires).

[Pandamasque]

We haven't seen any significant wet weather running yet, have we?

Since it always rains at Le Mans I'm curious how the BoP between heavier LMH cars and the lighter and less powerful R13 plays out.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

We haven't seen any significant wet weather running yet, have we?

Since it always rains at Le Mans I'm curious how the BoP between heavier LMH cars and the lighter and less powerful R13 plays out.

by now lmh got 700hp max power but things may change after the next week test even if is unlikely anyone would really push hard at the best of their potential.
Let's say that if toyota will be able to set 3.28-3.29 during test, is probably a pole of 3.25 or less.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by canaglia

same size or maybe even larger than the one used by a serious contender, which hasn't came yet.
At the moment glickenhaus may even have longer stints, but they are unrelibale and just slightly faster than lmp2 (during first stint of tires).

It was just a joke.

It was daft of me to be light hearted, I don’t learn.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

We haven't seen any significant wet weather running yet, have we?

Since it always rains at Le Mans I'm curious how the BoP between heavier LMH cars and the lighter and less powerful R13 plays out.

No we haven’t. More downforce will help in such situations.

And the 4WD not as much of an advantage as it was.

It’s cool we just don’t know.

[hondafan37]

Alpine F1 Car Set To Display At Le Mans 24 Hours
Hypercar class announcement looms.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...-24-hours.html

[Adam43]

Good news.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Alpine F1 Car Set To Display At Le Mans 24 Hours
Hypercar class announcement looms.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...-24-hours.html

Could they possibly have something ready for next season though? Or would this more likely be a 2023 deal?

[Pandamasque]

Fingers crossed. My soft spot for the Alpine brand and what they do is quite large and very soft

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by joeb

Could they possibly have something ready for next season though? Or would this more likely be a 2023 deal?

DSC opens the possibility of the Alpine A480 approved for a second season if they commit to a LMDh program in 2023.

The current Alpine Hypercar effort, based around a grandfathered Rebellion R13 Gibson LMP1, rebranded as the Alpine A480, is currently only guaranteed eligibility to compete in the FIA WEC (and at Le Mans) in 2021, and is unlikely to be approved for a second season without a future commitment.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

DSC opens the possibility of the Alpine A480 approved for a second season if they commit to a LMDh program in 2023.

this approach reminds me bmw style
so... they basically need to swap the gibson engine on an oreca 09 chassis?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

DSC opens the possibility of the Alpine A480 approved for a second season if they commit to a LMDh program in 2023.

Fair enough. I’ve no problem with that.

[S griffin]

Will be great to have a name like Alpine in the championship. Fingers crossed

[joeb]

Alpine is hopeful to only have one lap shorter stints than Toyota and Glick. They will take those odds, but won't be happy if it is 2 laps. There is also some mention of the extra weight being stressful on the chassis, and the potential push strategy to get something to break on the competition.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...-stint-length/

[Aysedasi]

Personally I think the most damaging aspect to the Alpine entry is that they only have one car.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Personally I think the most damaging aspect to the Alpine entry is that they only have one car.

I think they did acquire a second R13, but it must have been for spares.

I agree with you though, it is much harder to win with only one entry. Speaking of that, when was the last time Le Mans was won overall by a single car entry? My best guess is Team Goh in 2004. But before that was it a McLaren?