[Driver] Susie Wolff/women competing in motorsport (Merged)

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I'm sure that Danica would compare quite favourably, the point i'm trying to make is/was that other drivers did a better job in the series she was racing in so would maybe more worthy of a chance first?

What we need is a woman to dominate a certain series and blow her male counterparts away then there would be no arguement.

Hope SHE appears soon!

[Benny1664]

I keep seeing things about Susie Wolff actually driving for Williams sometime or at least getting an F1 race seat somewhere. This is beyond ridiculous! People were criticising Max Chilton and Razia massively before the start of the season but at least they were race winners in various categories... Susie was always between 15th and 20th (last!) in the DTM all the time I saw her race there so how can she warrant even being looked at for an F1 drive. I know her husband is massively rich but if she gets a drive it will make a mockery of everything, I cannot even see how she deserves a superlicence?

[Greem]

How about we wait and see if she gets a test before assuming that she's not going to be any good?

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by Greem

How about we wait and see if she gets a test before assuming that she's not going to be any good?

Have you ever seen anyone with such a record being any good in F1?

[Knowlesy]

She would be below average, undoubtedly, but I hardly think it is likely she would get a raceseat.

A bit of testing here and there, don't see the harm.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by REALIST

Have you ever seen anyone with such a record being any good in F1?

Not that I can think of, but there have been plenty of people given superlicences who then go off and do a couple of straight-line or circuit tests and disappear. In almost all cases the assembled F1 enthusiasts say:

nothing

about them.

[LC2guy]

Stirling Moss wading in with his 1820's Opinion ..........

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22083547

[bella]

to be entirely honest i do mostly agree with stirling moss. it's only a very recent kind of modern woman who have been allowed by 'society' and that to be exactly what they want and need to be when they're growing up, and that's when things like the instinct he's referring to develop. i think for a parent it takes a lot of courage to allow your daughter to embrace everything at a very early age - and you can't prepare her for ignorance or anything because that's what she'll expect. and that in itself will hinder her without her even realising it.

you do have to wait for the one-off to come around, one so far outside of the normal expectations of a girl and woman that she'll probably ruffle a lot of feathers on the way up.

when the vast, vast majority of guys are still confused/impressed/unnerved by the fact a girl or a couple of girls can even *go* to motorsport of their own accord, and off their own back without being lead there by a significant other or friend then you know we've still got a long way to go.

standard "i'm not a bra-burning feminist" disclaimer applies.

[Peter Mallett]

Don't you think he was asked in order to elicit that response? With the greatest respect to Suzi, I'm not sure she warrants a tv show.

Moss is old fashioned but to an extent, history backs him up. He has ignored Michelle Mouton who arguably had a more difficult task on the old style world rally championship, but looking back to Leila Lombardi, Davina Galitsa or Desire Wilson one has to ask the question as to whether there is a fundamental difference between male and female racing drivers.

[bella]

i don't know if michele mouton *did* have a massive fight on her hands. as far as i can tell, women have been a far bigger part of rally than circuit racing. it's absolutely acceptable for french women in particular to be involved one way or another.

yes, ok, the general accepted standard was that women were there with their husbands, and they were mostly co-drivers but there have always been a greater number involved. especially in dakar.

[Peter Mallett]

Good point and to illustrate I give you Pat Moss.

But I do subscribe to the theory that the Mouton period of rallying was far harder.

[chunder]

There are similarities with certain Asian countries and black people getting invovled, but that is another issue

One thing raised earlier was her speed in DTM, Coulthard, Ralf, Frentzen Alesi hardly set the world alight either! And you don't know what spec car Susie had, she certainly lasted longer than Legge who was a total embarassment and has been flitting between whatever series wants to promote a lady driver for most of her career.

Whether Susie kept her drive because of Herr Wolff I dont know, but she seems to be one of the better lady drivers.

Regarding Michele Mouton, she certainly came up against a lot of sexism, Rohrl in particular was very rude about her, and bearing in mind the car she was driving was yes dominant, but also very physical and demanding to drive she deserves lots of credit

Danica is doing great things, but seems reluctant to take on the female banner other than when she wants to make money for herself promoting or advertsting.

I did read an article by Cracknells missus about her being involved in F1, she did however sound rather bitter and twisted about the whole experience, and there seems to be a large number of women involved, albeit in PR type roles, but whats wrong with that if that is a skill set that suits them?

Driving wise, I think by now if a woman was good enough she would have had the opportunities to thrive and none apart from Danica and Mouton have. So I think there must be some sort of barrier either physically or mentally.

[garcon]

I salute anybody who could drive the group B swb Quattro quickly, especially on tarmac - and nobody was quicker than Michelle given that combination.

I feel a bit sorry for Sir Stirling - he has simply given an honest reply to a mischevious question. Equally, I don't think Wolff could really have responded any differently.

I'm certain Sir Stirling would be the first to congratulate a successful female driver - but I suppose then he'd be accused of being patronising. (Although I'm sure he'd be happy to make up for that by inviting her to dinner... )

[chunder]

I think the comments of Moss should be largely ignored, he has often portrayed himself as a womaniser in the pasta and his attitude towards women in general is probably not reflective of the vast majority.

Quite why he is still sought out for all this kind of stuff at his age I dont know! Seems someone at the Beeb is a fan of his I imagine. Surely be better to get someone like Hill, Mansell (god forbid) Surtees, Brundle, Palmer etc to comment rather than an eldery, frail old man!

[Paradise City]

The husband being a then boss of Williams and suddenly the missus disappearing from the back of the DTM grid, reappearing on the Williams test driver rota and then Williams bigwigs - innocent as the day is long - point blank denying that there was any nepotism involved was immensely amusing. She received alot of very public derision for that.

I have no problem with her testing. Alot of testers appear on the back of a wealthy network rather than on merit and Mrs Wolff is no different really. She just happens to be his wife.

If Ms. Wolff replaces Rosberg at Merc now that would be something.....

[steve_r]

I think Stirling Moss is way off the mark with the "menal aptitude" reason. Women excel in plenty of other sports that require very a tough mental aptitude. There are many reasons why we do not have women F1 drivers, but I do not think lack of mental strength is one of them.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by chunder

he has often portrayed himself as a womaniser in the pasta

Well you made a right bolognese of that didn't you?

[BSchneiderFan]

Sir Stirling is old-fashioned. He still uses the word "crumpet" unironically. Do I agree with him? No, I think he's talking piffle. Should he have said it? If it's what he thinks, yes. The opinion of a motor racing great on matters motor racing-related are relevant to the debate.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by chunder

I think the comments of Moss should be largely ignored, he has often portrayed himself as a womaniser in the pasta and his attitude towards women in general is probably not reflective of the vast majority.

Quite why he is still sought out for all this kind of stuff at his age I dont know! Seems someone at the Beeb is a fan of his I imagine. Surely be better to get someone like Hill, Mansell (god forbid) Surtees, Brundle, Palmer etc to comment rather than an eldery, frail old man!

Yep, I am sure he still sees women as 'crumpet' - as he would put it...

[bella]

Originally Posted by chunder

Regarding Michele Mouton, she certainly came up against a lot of sexism, Rohrl in particular was very rude about her, and bearing in mind the car she was driving was yes dominant, but also very physical and demanding to drive she deserves lots of credit

Danica is doing great things, but seems reluctant to take on the female banner other than when she wants to make money for herself promoting or advertsting.

I did read an article by Cracknells missus about her being involved in F1, she did however sound rather bitter and twisted about the whole experience, and there seems to be a large number of women involved, albeit in PR type roles, but whats wrong with that if that is a skill set that suits them?

Driving wise, I think by now if a woman was good enough she would have had the opportunities to thrive and none apart from Danica and Mouton have. So I think there must be some sort of barrier either physically or mentally.

to be honest, it's almost easier when men are out and out rude about you as a girl doing a "mans job". at least you know what to expect from them, and that they're not just being polite to your face but will get the knife out as soon as you turn your back.

beverly turner (that's her name, isn't it?) to be fair was in a really unfortunate position. i think the way she was used was part of a very very dated view of womens interest in racing. she was also completely the wrong person to be involved with f1 - you can be girly girly and faff around at circuits but you're going to get treated with the contempt that deserves because to be honest, it's inappropriate. and a whole pack of men who have been working in a pack for weeks, if not months on end will be a bit starved and will be all over you like a rash with rude remarks, particularly if you do nothing to gain their respect and stand your ground. that's not victim blaming or anothing, it's just human nature because girls in the same situation are exactly the same (evidence: all girls schools. terrifying...).

but yeah, there is clearly something different about women drivers, i do still think it's a cultural thing and a nurture thing rather than strictly nature but it's not just a simple answer is it!

[Greem]

Are we largely re-hashing this thread?

[Aysedasi]

Could be.....

[bella]

hey, it's a monday, we all need to rant about something on a monday

[garcon]

I'm pasta caring.

One thing with Michelle Mouton was that if someone like Walter Rohrl was rude to her she was more than happy to be even ruder back.

[Born Racer]

I like Moss but he's talking ******** with that quote.