Driving standards/ stewarding

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It doesn't matter how hard anyone tries, the bottom line is that his behaviour was inexcusable (in the car) and downright puerile (out of it).

Agreed.


As Gordon says, in the heat of a race or even qualy, with cars side by side, it is possible to miss a flag or a light - I had concerns on Saturday in the rain and spray at Donington that I might have missed one that is positioned way to the right as you climb up from the Old Hairpin, as I was side by side (to the left) of another car, as there was a yellow there next time round.....but if I'd been reported I'd have held my hands up.



For my 2p, light boxes that are immediately adjacent to the track are useful - but a waved flag (particularly some distance from trackside) is much more likely to catch the eye - you see the movement - and of course an experienced marshal conveys a whole lot of information concerning the severity of the incident by the manner in which the flag is displayed

[S griffin]

Don’t all cars have cockpit lights to tell them when a yellow flag is out though? Surely there’s no excuse if they do

However it’s interesting you mention missing yellow flags. I’ve found myself reading Martin Brundle’s working the wheel and he says how annoyed he was to get fined for going off under yellow flags at Suzuka in 94, the one where he hit a marshal and nearly suffered the same fate as Bianchi would later , when due to the conditions, in his words you couldn’t see your own hand in front of your face and the fact is the red flag should have been out sooner

[Tourer]

The cockpit light system was not functioning - the cable that got severed meant no signalling lights at the flag point, also meaning no transmission to the cars so no dash lights. Flags were “it” in those circumstances.

No visibility issues such as MB experienced at Suzuka - just a young driver who made a bad decision.

[newlaprecord]

i was just wondering how you guys felt about this gem of an interview with kvyatt, https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...k9FFdu0bX.html

i mean, is there literally anyone around -apart from him- who think that it was a fair and square move and deserved no penalty?

it seems to me that 1. he wasnt anywhere near at the entry of the corner to really even claim a line 2. he was given a really generous amount of space regardless 3. he just crashed into a car that went clearly first in to a corner 4. the impact of the crash seems like the only reason he could even make the corner (its literally one of those "master" moves where you need to crash into someone to get the braking right... after all it was a bit over ambitious racing -i would even say kudos for trying, really- but how delussional you need to be to say that THIS was a legit move (took the points of track...)

[S griffin]

Yes it was over ambitious now you mention it, although he at least got alongside unlike in Mexico where he just drove into the back wheel of Hulk. Still Kvyat had a good drive in Austin

[wolfhound]

Following Hamiltons admission of guilt in Brazil I wonder if drivers were given reduced penalties for admitting their mistakes would it reduce the work of the stewards?

[S griffin]

I have heard cases of that in the past. However it would only work if you weren’t a repeat offender.

I have to say though that the biggest offence didn’t get a punishment. Vettel on Leclerc. If they weren’t team mates, would Vettel have got away with it so easily. Surely it was worth more punishment than the two proper racing incidents that did get a punishment

[greentrumpet]

Isn't it the case that more points on Vettell's licence might leave the grid short of an indispensable red car?

[S griffin]

Not really, they can always find a replacement for Vettel in that red car

[Greem]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Not really, they can always find a replacement for Vettel in that red car

No, they can't:

Originally Posted by 2019 FORMULA ONE SPORTING REGULATIONS

Section 4 (Licenses), Article 4.2:
"With the exception of a reprimand or fine, when a penalty is applied under the International Sporting Code or Article 38.3 the stewards may impose penalty points on a driver’s Super Licence. If a driver accrues 12 penalty points his licence will be suspended for the following Event, following which 12 points will be removed from the licence."

And then also:

Originally Posted by 2019 INTERNATIONAL SPORTING CODE

Article 12.9.3 Suspension
12.9.3 Suspension shall also render null and void any previous Entry made for any Competition which may take place during the term of such Suspension and shall also entail the forfeiture of the fee payable for any such Entry.

...meaning that during the period of any suspension due to accumulation of penalty points, the team's entry for that driver & car pairing is rendered null and void - so the driver cannot simply be replaced.

I'm sure Ferrari would plead force majeure and ask, but I doubt they'd be permitted to run a replacement driver. There are articles about that too but I'll leave them as an exercise for anyone who can be bothered to look them up!

[S griffin]

The last driver to get banned Grosjean was replaced by d’Ambrosio for Monza, although I’m not sure that was by the penalty points system

[SWCRacing]

A prime example of a little knowledge not being used correctly....

Article 12.9 of the ISC relates to Suspension of the Competitor / Driver by their ASN for "Grave Offences". Think Dan Ticktum.....

Article 4 of the F1 Sporting regs allows for the suspension of a drivers licence for the next event after he accrues 12 points in a 12 month period

Article 26 of the F1 Sporting regs allows for the change of a driver at any time up to the start of qualifying practice.

[greentrumpet]

Might still hack Ferrari off to be without their "No 1" driver at the last race of the year.

Vettel is a spoilt brat, has made a huge contribution to Ferrari failing to win a world title for 3 straight years. It's only my feeling but I believe that if Hamilton had been in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc for the last 3 years Ferrari would have won at least one championship for drivers if not for constructors.
Ferrari have sacked a lot of people but not the most deserving.

[wnut]

Following the 2021 Azerbaijan GP there seem to be a whole bunch of weird stewarding decisions that seem to need explanation.

Failure to deploy safety car following Max's accident, failure to penalize drivers for speeding past the scene of accidents, Norris querying Tsunoda speeding through an accident scene, and then Massi saying the whole field had sped through the scene would seem to be an unacceptable response to a situation where license penalties should have been issued to prevent future offending.

Good summary of the stewards failures in Baku here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYlFdZBrSn8

[S griffin]

Let's not forget what Mazepin did to Schumi at the end. If they came together, it could have been a plane crash type accident

[wnut]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Let's not forget what Mazepin did to Schumi at the end. If they came together, it could have been a plane crash type accident

Agreed! This incident looked particularly ugly on Mazepin's in car camera and I commented that the stewards had not even looked at it. Tourer reckons they may look at it before the next race, then hand down the penalty there.
Can but hope.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by wnut

Agreed! This incident looked particularly ugly on Mazepin's in car camera and I commented that the stewards had not even looked at it. Tourer reckons they may look at it before the next race, then hand down the penalty there.
Can but hope.

From the wording of Michael Masi's statement on the issue it seems that the likelihood of a penalty are remote.... the most that will happen is Masi might, if necessary, 'have a chat' with Mazepin and the team'.

“To be fair, obviously we were looking at the front so I didn’t actually see the incident myself, so I can’t comment on it,” Masi told RacingNews365.com and other select members of the press.. “I’d prefer not to comment having not seen it.

"I'll have a look at it in the fresh light of day and if necessary, I will have a chat with the team and the driver concerned."

Full article: https://racingnews365.com/fia-to-loo...an-gp-incident

[wnut]

Originally Posted by E.B

From the wording of Michael Masi's statement on the issue it seems that the likelihood of a penalty are remote.... the most that will happen is Masi might, if necessary, 'have a chat' with Mazepin and the team'.

Full article: https://racingnews365.com/fia-to-loo...an-gp-incident

Mazepin trying to kill Schumacher (Warning Bad Language)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xd4isY6JpA

[wnut]

Alonso upset about drivers overtaking outside the track limits on the first lap,
" FIA should focus on policing the track limits and not Verstappen's burnouts.

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/982368...pen-s-burnouts

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by wnut

Alonso upset about drivers overtaking outside the track limits on the first lap,
" FIA should focus on policing the track limits and not Verstappen's burnouts.

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/982368...pen-s-burnouts

Can see where he's coming from, there have been more dangerous incidents than what Max did. And they seem to get off lightly compared to other incidents

[Adam43]

Super consistent today. So that’s OK.

[GT6]

yes consistent but not exactly what we want to see, the quickest way to stop overtaking is to penalise everyone involved, both those trying to overtake or trying to defend.

[djinvicta]

As Lando said after the race, " I didn't touch Perez, if you go out on the outside, what do you expect?"
Perez did it to himself and I was tempted to think Leclerc "engineered" the second attempt as a ploy to get Checko another 5 seconds, which he did get. Why try it twice Leclerc?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by djinvicta

As Lando said after the race, " I didn't touch Perez, if you go out on the outside, what do you expect?"
Perez did it to himself and I was tempted to think Leclerc "engineered" the second attempt as a ploy to get Checko another 5 seconds, which he did get. Why try it twice Leclerc?

I actually agree. There was plenty of red mist involved there. Charles just wasn't going to concede was he, whatever happened. He was lucky the outcome wasn't worse.

Originally Posted by Adam43

Super consistent today. So that’s OK.

Well, the only thing to be applauded was the stewards realising that they had to penalise Checo for doing something slightly 'worse' than Lando did to him. If something is bad, is being consistently bad actually good?

[Adam43]

It seems so