888 Gets Off... Time To Fix The Rules?

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Then the car controller screams on the radio that there is a tyre lose and the person responsible fixes the issue, And if he doesnt some one gets a drive through

That in my mind the whole idea of being a car controller. You dont let the car go until everything is completed by otehrs

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

In the worst case event, if there is a failure on the fuel rig, and the fuel is pishing all over the lane, the car controller is distracted, picking up a wheel nut in the fast lane , and is the furthest point from the fuel intake now anyway because he is so far away... they are not able to be in control of the spot, to communicate with the driver as all hell breaks loose behind the car, fire extinguishers going off, fuelmen pulling the nozzle from the car, the team running from the event.

That is worst case... isnt that what rules are for? Especially with regards to safety...

GTR, I think you and pecky are right on the money with these posts.

[Trevor]

all I see is a bunch of TV warriors nit-picking over "what could have been", "what might have been", fact is he did what was safe - time to move on

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

In the worst case event, if there is a failure on the fuel rig, and the fuel is pishing all over the lane, the car controller is distracted, picking up a wheel nut in the fast lane , and is the furthest point from the fuel intake now anyway because he is so far away... they are not able to be in control of the spot, to communicate with the driver as all hell breaks loose behind the car, fire extinguishers going off, fuelmen pulling the nozzle from the car, the team running from the event.

That is worst case... isnt that what rules are for? Especially with regards to safety...

Oh, there's many other things that could happen that could be a worst case. In the one you mentioned, you're assuming that without the cc, the fuel filler, dead man handle operator, air jack operator and the fire extinguisher operator can't do their jobs - I disagree. You're also assuming that the cc is unable to make a decision, should the situation you describe occur, on whether to focus on the errant wheel or the fuel spill - again, I disagree.

There are other situations that could occur - for example, a passing car might have a problem or lose a wheel and hit another team's crew or gear - so the cc might have team members down, gear everywhere and you're suggesting that the cc has to stand back and not assist their own team members or clear gear from them? Sorry, makes no sense.

Same applies should a boom be brought down (much more unlikely these days due to a variety of rule changes but it HAS happened in the past) - what you are suggesting is that the cc can't then assist their injured team mates on the ground by clearing the boom etc away from them.

There are many situations that COULD occur and it's important that pit crew be given some latitude to deal with them - they are not robots that can only deal with one thing at a time or which need to be pre-programmed. As Trevor has said, the pit stop concerned was fine - move along, nothing to see here.

[eduardo1]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Oh, there's many other things that could happen that could be a worst case. In the one you mentioned, you're assuming that without the cc, the fuel filler, dead man handle operator, air jack operator and the fire extinguisher operator can't do their jobs - I disagree. You're also assuming that the cc is unable to make a decision, should the situation you describe occur, on whether to focus on the errant wheel or the fuel spill - again, I disagree.

There are other situations that could occur - for example, a passing car might have a problem or lose a wheel and hit another team's crew or gear - so the cc might have team members down, gear everywhere and you're suggesting that the cc has to stand back and not assist their own team members or clear gear from them? Sorry, makes no sense.

Same applies should a boom be brought down (much more unlikely these days due to a variety of rule changes but it HAS happened in the past) - what you are suggesting is that the cc can't then assist their injured team mates on the ground by clearing the boom etc away from them.

There are many situations that COULD occur and it's important that pit crew be given some latitude to deal with them - they are not robots that can only deal with one thing at a time or which need to be pre-programmed. As Trevor has said, the pit stop concerned was fine - move along, nothing to see here.

And the argument all along is that the crew is meant to deal with them - with one person viewing and managing the entire situation without distraction. It also means that there is one voice issuing instructions for everyone's safety instead of multiple people - all of whom have obscured views, trying to arrive at decision by committee. If a wheel nut or wheel is in the way, it is that corner's responsibility to fix it. If there's an issue with refuelling, it is the fueller's job to fix it.

But the Controller ensures that the person on the left side doesn't drop the car until the person on the right side is clear. And if the fuel spills everywhere, the CC makes the call of whether the driver is to evacuate, if the people unsighted on the right are given an extra second or three to move if required.

Ultimately that was the point of the rules around the Car Controller - that they are there to manage the safety of all the of the crew and team.

That's why the rules should be black and white.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by eduardo1

And the argument all along is that the crew is meant to deal with them - with one person viewing and managing the entire situation without distraction. It also means that there is one voice issuing instructions for everyone's safety instead of multiple people - all of whom have obscured views, trying to arrive at decision by committee. If a wheel nut or wheel is in the way, it is that corner's responsibility to fix it. If there's an issue with refuelling, it is the fueller's job to fix it.

But the Controller ensures that the person on the left side doesn't drop the car until the person on the right side is clear. And if the fuel spills everywhere, the CC makes the call of whether the driver is to evacuate, if the people unsighted on the right are given an extra second or three to move if required.

Ultimately that was the point of the rules around the Car Controller - that they are there to manage the safety of all the of the crew and team.

That's why the rules should be black and white.

eduardo, you are so obviously right, it's a no brainer.

[nafe!]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

There are too many stupid nitpicking rules that are spoiling the sport. I couldn't care less which team it was, and I have the same feelings about the wheel spinning rule in pitlane that got Bright penalized yesterday. I understand the safety aspect behind it all, but I think they are getting a bit carried away with all this stuff, these days. The issue at the 12 hour earlier this year, which got a penalty for the Maranello Ferrari, was also another ridiculously stupid decision which luckily didn't stop them from winning, but it goes on and on. It makes a laughing stock of V8SC's and Aus motorsport in the eyes of the casual followers of the sport. Where will it all end?
A better option would be to perhaps give the teams a warning, maybe 3 strikes and you then cop a drive through, for these minor offenses.

Totally agree. Great races are ruined over completely ridiculous things. Do we want this to be a sport won by drivers putting on a fantastic show or a knit picking bureaucracy?

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Trevor

all I see is a bunch of TV warriors nit-picking over "what could have been", "what might have been",

Spot on, give the man a cigar!

Legends in their own lunch time.

[peckstar]

Fixed that for you, Dont leave yourself out

Originally Posted by Casper

Spot on, give the man a cigar!

Legends in our own lunch time.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Trevor

all I see is a bunch of TV warriors nit-picking over "what could have been", "what might have been", fact is he did what was safe - time to move on

Originally Posted by Casper

Spot on, give the man a cigar!

Legends in their own lunch time.

Isn't that what internet forums are for? To discuss issues.

[Trevor]

there is no issue

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Trevor

there is no issue

That's what we are discussing, is there an issue?

[GTRMagic]

F1 looking to change its pitstop penalties

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

F1 looking to change its pitstop penalties

of course the f1 system is already harsher.

5 sec stop and go, plus a ten plus grid penalty for next race

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by bluesport

That's what we are discussing, is there an issue?

NO

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Trevor

NO

Thankyou for joining the discussion and registering your opinion.

[kerb]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

From my perspective, it wouldnt make a difference if it was 888 or LDM who has an errant car controller thinking he can help in the stop.

Their job is to maintain control of the car when it is in the pitlane, and ultimately in the pit box. They dont have to do anything else.

There is a crew of expensive, highly trained individuals whose responsibility it is to physically touch the car or the bits to go on or come off, or damage repair. Or to build a safe passage out of the pit lane.

Imagine if in the 888 instance the tyre wasnt moved. The #888 would have run over it, and likely caused the team a drive thru penalty for an unsafe release, plus whatever damage is happening to the car from that hit.

The question is, why werent the 2 guys putting the tyre on the front making sure the one coming off the car was in its right position. They practice this stuff for hours a day at the workshop, and on the apron at the race track when they are there.

It is a team penalty.

Time to tighten the rules perhaps to make it so?

ok lets sort a few things out

1 there were no front tyre changes, so i don't know why the wheel in question was out there

2 the car controller is allowed to touch the wheel as it was not assisting the stop, and he is supposed to make a clear passage for the car

it is a good point but. the rule used to be black and white, but now they are too inconsistent, take Ingal at Winton for instance

[kerb]

then again, 888 was already last, and a lap down, so DT would have been useless

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Thankyou for joining the discussion and registering your opinion.

no problem

[sizzle]

Cant believe this is still going on so I am going to put my two cents in, worthless as it is. I know a bloke who would probably (nah definitely) think the rules have been broken, me I couldn't give a fat rats clacker because I am not involved in the category, but if anyone ever thinks that tyre was going to interfere with a safe exit of that car then you live in another land.